A godly wife told her godly husband, "I don't mind being under your headship, as long as you are under the Headship of Christ." Is this correct thinking? It seems to be what the church is teaching to married couples, "Husbands must love their wife as Christ loves the church or the wife doesn't have to submit to him." This is destructive teaching and thinking this will destroy your marriage.
Our behavior and obedience to God's commands NEVER hinge upon someone else's actions. Never put stipulations on God's commands to us. We will all stand before God one day and have to give an account for our own actions; not the actions of our husbands or any one else. Therefore, we need to be happily under our husband's headship and submit to him regardless of whether or not he is under the Headship of Christ or the Bible would have told women to submit to and obey your husband along as ________{You fill in the blank.} but it doesn't do this. No, we are called to submit no matter what our husbands are like. In fact, God may use a wife's submission to win her husband to Him.
Therefore, if your husband is not the leader you think he should be, follow him any ways. If he tells you to do something you disagree with, gently tell him why you disagree but if it is not against God's commands, obey him. As you obey your husband, you are obeying the Lord since this is what He requires of you. No, it's not always easy. We'd much rather be the leader of the home but God didn't make us to be. He made us to have babies and nurture them. He made us to be help meets to our husbands. It's a good and holy role that God has given us. Don't ever let the lies of our culture convince you otherwise.
For the husband is the head of the wife,
even as Christ is the head of the church:
and he is the Savior of the body.
Ephesians 5:23
Logging you in...
signpostsstrangeland 9p · 479 weeks ago
So there's your stipulation. You have contradicted yourself.
We'd much rather be the leader of the home...
Speak for yourself.
stacy · 479 weeks ago
Rob · 478 weeks ago
My wife absolutely can have own point of view and talk to me about anything. Just do it in a respectful way especially around the children. If I make a decision, say let's go watch a movie, let's go for dinner. What time I want to leave for something she can say, "Hey honey let's leave at 10." It's called a conversation not a dictatorship. But not, "No we are leaving at 11 and that's it."
The best and most successful marriages in my opinion have good conversation and a husband should always consider his wife's feeling and respect her but ultiminately he can make the final decision. A good husband should never flex his muscle. I am a Mr Steady man it seems like not a Mr Command Man, but yes a wife should respect her husband position in the home and a husband should respect all the hard work she does in the home because that shows to the kids respect. A wife is not a dog or a child being tested that way.
A wife should gently submit to her husband and the husband should treat his wife with love and respect. If there is rebellion or disrespect for the husband's decisions then there is a a lot of work to do on that marriage. A wife is not a doormat but when she is rebellious to her husband or disrespectful she is training her daughters to be that way but if a husband is a jerk leader then he is using his authority for his own self and not for the glory of God.
Sorry for a long comment but Lori was not contradicting herself at all. She was merely stating a fact!!!!!
Ken · 478 weeks ago
I have read you comments and I cannot help but think that you and Lori are actually on the same page, but for some reason you can't see it, or you are trying to split hairs.
You point out that Lori writes:
"gently tell him why you disagree but if it is not against God's commands, obey him"
Then you write:
"I'm in no disagreement with sharing our thoughts in a respectful manner - that should be done no matter who is the recipient of our thoughts and opinions."
Do you not have the same correct stipulation that you accuse Lori of having?
Yes, the goal of a one flesh marriage is to blend wills, and the ultimate arbiter of which will to follow falls on the head, and husband, as he is to lovingly guide his wife and marriage. Yet a husband's will can and is changed by a submissive wife's thoughts given in a respectful and gracious manner.
The problem with this discussion is that how a wife submits to a husband is not black and white as some aspects depend on the person and character of her husband. IF a husband informs a wife that she is not to give her thoughts and suggestions, then one might argue that she is not being submissive in then speaking up. I would suggest that such a husband is not modeling Christ for his wife and not leading well, unless his request is given for only a specific area of disagreement where he has made a final decision.
Also, if a wife's heart motive in sharing her thoughts and desires is to try and manipulate her husband she is wrong and goes against the heart of submission.
You yourself have pointed out the absurdity of a wife never speaking up, especially in areas of clear sin... i.e. murder, or threesomes. Yet you seem to fail to see that a wife can live in complete submission to a husband, yet ask the question, "Are you sure that we should see that R rated movie, or go to that wild party, etc." There is a wide realm of things a wife not only can say to a husband, but as his Helpmeet and co-heir with Christ may be compelled to say by God's Word. It is much more in how things are said and with what motive they are said that make her words God pleasing or not.
Lastly, one can argue, and perhaps you do, that a wife is to "win her man without a word" and "please him in everything." The "win him" is in reference to a disobedient husband, and although the principle should apply even towards an obedient husband, if a wife is not trying to "win" anything, but simply be informative, not instructive, she should be invited by her husband to speak up on any area, unless or until he says that he is no longer inviting her opinion, then case closed.
You have already dismissed the idea that a wife is to submit to her husband "in everything" as she serves a higher authority when it comes to clear Biblical commands. She is not to pick and choose which commands to obey in the scriptures, nor should she stretch the scriptures to make things a sin that are not clearly sin. Bikini wearing is not a trivial matter, and if a husband insists, a wife whose conscience forbids it must speak up with a kind request of her husband to meet her at least part way where she will be comfortable and godly in public. If he says, "no" she is now under the authority of her husband and may wear the bikini, but to not question it would be sin to her. She also may decide that it violates God's clear command to be modest and refuse to wear the bikini, willing to suffer the consequences that come from her decision to choose what her soul convicts her is the right thing to do. She can do this in a most humble and conciliatory manner that still shows a willingness to submit in all things, but also submit first to God's clear instructions.
You sound like you want black and white on this issue, and by demanding such you have fallen off of the horse of truth. Truth is always held in tension by other truths. We both have agreed it is wrong to exult submission to husband above the rest of God's Word. Now it is up to each wife to learn to live within this tension of truth, not picking and choosing when she will or will not obey her husband, but choosing instead to do "all things Christian" within the balanced tension of the truth of God's Word.
Helen · 478 weeks ago
I love this post, and I understood it perfectly!. I was then very confused on reading the comments about this Booky person not understanding the context here. I am actually wondering if they are a troll or similar as they seem very 'aggressive' in approach.
Thank you as ever for your godly teaching.
Blessings to you and to Ken
Helen UK
jsr · 478 weeks ago
There are some possible examples to support this argument in the Old Testament. I believe Sarah submitted to Abraham to lie about being his sister. Also, somewhere there is a law that a husband can nullify an agreement made by the wife and she will not be held responsible. The book 'Me Obey Him?' makes an argument that God will protect the wife somehow if she is truly attempting to be submissive to a directive to sin.
It's a tough argument to swallow, and I am not comfortable agreeing with it. However, I am not sure it can be completely dismissed out of hand.
Dave · 478 weeks ago
dave · 478 weeks ago