Monday, March 19, 2012

Breaking Their Will


Whew!!!  When I wrote Pray For Michael Pearl, I received several long comments and emails telling me how wrong Pearl's disciplining methods are and I shouldn't be supporting them.  I deleted the comments because I don't want any Pearl bashing going on on my blog.  There are many other blogs that do that.  I only want to support them. 

Here are the comments in his book To Train Up A Child people seem to have the most trouble with ~

{It is funny.  I was just reading the comments that people sent me and they didn't send me the comments in the context that the Pearl's wrote them...Figures.  I will give them to you in the whole context.  ALWAYS make sure you check the context before you believe everything people tell you.}

However, if you are just beginning to institute training on an already rebellious child who runs from discipline, and he is too disturbed to listen {This is the part they somehow left out.}, then you must constrain him.  If you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate.  And hold him there until he has surrendered.  Prove that you are bigger, tougher, more patiently enduring, and are unmoved by his wailing.  Hold the resisting child in a helpless position for several minutes, or until he is totally surrendered.  Accept no conditions for surrender - no compromise.  Your are to rule over him as a benevolent sovereign.  Your word is final.

They are very clear that there should never be bruising of a child.   A child that is out of control, rebellious, and refuses to obey needs some stern discipline or he will be in grave danger as he gets older.

We never had to get to this point.  The first time our children had a temper tantrum or refused to obey us, around 18 months, Ken and I would take turns telling them to pick up the toys {or whatever they were refusing to do} and then give them a swat on their bottom if they wouldn't do it.  With all four of our children, it took almost four long, difficult hours.

Finally, they submitted, picked up their toys, and we cuddled with them.  We won the war.  They never had a temper tantrum after that, were mean to their siblings, and obeyed us quickly.  They knew we were boss, not them.

So I am very tired of people misinterpreting what the Pearls teach.  Parents NEED to get control of rebellious children quickly.  The earlier you stop rebellion, the easier they are to raise.  This makes it a whole lot easier on teachers, coaches, bosses, etc. 

No, it is not easy but it is so worth it to have obedient, happy, and disciplined children.  My children were a joy to raise.  May you experience the same with your children!

I will chasten him with the rod.
2 Samuel 7:14

Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul
Proverbs 29:17

Comments (23)

Loading... Logging you in...
  • Logged in as
So I have a two-year-old with the strongest will I have EVER encountered...and I'm a Pre-K teacher so I've known lots of stubborn kids! So I want to ask a little more about the situtations you encountered with your children when you say that it took four long, hard hours to get them to submit when they were being defiant and that after that they never tried it again. Can you tell me more specifically what went on during that time (specifically what your and Ken's role was and what the child was doing during that time)? I know you weren't spanking the whole time and I know negotiating with a raging toddler is a no-no. So what exactly did you and Ken have to do during that time to get your point across that you were boss and that you weren't going to give in? I feel like I obviously haven't been able to get that point across since the temper tantrums and defiance are happening more and more every day. I know it was a long time ago but anything that you can remember or advise about dealing with a strong willed, commited temper tantrums in action will be very appreiciated :)
2 replies · active 679 weeks ago
One of them wouldn't pick up their raisans. We would tell her to pick them up, she would say "no", and we would spank her. She would cry for awhile. After awhile, we would again tell her to pick up her raisans. She refused. We spanked her again. We would make her stay where she was until she finally picked up her raisans. Ken and I would take turns because it was very tiring but oh, so worth it. None of our children had tantrums after that. They each had one but found out it didn't result in anything good and wasnt' worth it.
Thanks for asking that Jamie! We adopted a baby girl that is now 2 and she is starting to really act up. I too wanted more info on this!
I remember reading through that part of the book years ago (probably about 12 years old) and thinking "boy, I sure hope I don't ever have to go through that!" I think that just reading it made me behave a little better. :)
Paul
I think that part of the problem many folks have with the Pearls is that they don't have the patience or self-discipline to follow through with this form of discipline for their children.
It's so much easier to sit a child in "time-out" and go about your business.
It bothers me when people bad mouth the Pearls. Clearly they have a good relationship with their own children and I fail to see how they could have that relationship if they had been abusive parents. I've read most of their books and have never felt they were promoting abuse in any form.
1 reply · active 664 weeks ago
Thanks for sharing that Michelle! I am looking forward to reading some of the books...have alot to learn and fast!
I know Jo Frost (Super Nanny) advocates keeping on the child until you get the disired response. She doesn't advocate spanking, but will keep placing the strong willed child back into time out, until the child summits and sits for the duration of the time out. Exhausting for the parents, but it works. My husband and I, have used her method.
I appreciate the info you post about. I'm a new mom to a two year old. I sometimes read your posts aloud to my hubby and we talk about everything you write!
The one thing to remember is that every child is different and there are exceptions to the rule. We raised a daughter that we adopted and traditional ways of discipline including spanking did NOT work. It turns out she had ADHD and oppositional defiant disorder and the normal forms of punishment just did not work. When she was evaluated by a specialist and put on medication she had a much easier time of being disciplined and was much more copperative. Sometimes a severely stubborn child has biological problems that need to be addressed first. I love your blog and read it each day!!
I am the mom of a particularly headstrong little girl. There are times when she is obedient and pleasurable to raise. She brings smiles to my face daily and I love her cuddly attachment to me. But when that child decides her mind is set on something different than the directions/instructions she has been given, she is a little beast (and yes, I say that in the most affectionate way possible). Firm words do not work (she ignores); time out does not work (she leaves over and over and over again); spanking does not work (it just really does not affect her and I refuse to spank her any harder than what I do). So yes...there are times that I restrain her. It's nothing that hurts her. There have never been any marks on her after this. At 2, I simply hold her ankles between my hands (immobilizing her) until she can calm down and listen to me. Once she is calm I ask her, "if I let go, can you sit and listen to me?" When she finally agrees to do so, she does sit and listen. And then we can do time out and/or discuss her actions. The key to her is to calm her down. And right now, that means dominating her - not in a painful way, but in a way that I hope conveys that I am the parent and she will listen to me.

I know some people probably have a problem with that. Some people would parent my daughter differently. That's why I bring this up hesitantly. But my plan is to have her respect authority (whether that be me or teachers or whoever she will encounter). Some people's methods of throwing their hands up and giving up on how to discipline this child would not result in the child that I'm hoping to raise. I want to get a hold on the rebellion before she is an adolescent or teen and can make some seriously bad decisions.

Our son? Was not (and is not) parented this way because a firm word, time out, or removing privileges is enough to keep him in line. As bella (above) mentioned, each child is different and I cringe when parents of easier children (like my son) tell me how to parent my daughter. I'd love to see them do it for a week.
1 reply · active 675 weeks ago
kaye, i was that headstrong little girl and i wish my parents had done as you are doing.
We have made the decision to start spanking our adopted 2-year old daugther, as her will is so strong! A time-out does nothing. However, our biological 2-year old son responds very well to time-outs. He puts his head down, and he hates to dissapoint.

This makes me feel better about a time-out/spanking session that occurred with my daughter for a hour and a half. My husband was working, so it was only me. It wore me down! I called my husband asking what I should do and he told me to keep being consistent and don't give in.

I made her stay where she was at, and about every 2-3 minutes I asked her to do what I wanted her to do. She would say "no" with attiutude, and I would spank her and then ask again in a few minutes.

FINALLY she did it! I'm hoping this was a milestone, but I have a feeling we'll have a few more sessions like that in the future... hopefully when my husband is home to help.
2 replies · active 679 weeks ago
Just curious why you refer to your daughter as adopted and your son as biological? I have an adopted child and a bio one. I never feel the need to differentiate between the two. I'm not being critical, just curious.
I was just pointing out the difference between why I think our daughter has been harder to train than our son. Unfortunately, we were unable to get her until she was 15 months old. I'm thankful that she wasn't any older, but we've learned that the first 15 months really do make a difference. She was neglected as an infant, and then with her grandparents the 8 months prior to getting us. Her grandparents were very kind and did not abuse her, but they also never told her no or set any boundaries. Her will is 10x stronger than our sons, and we're learning as we go. Oh, and she is actually my 1st cousin's daughter, so she is kind of biological. :)

My kiddos are only 2 months apart, so they obviously look like twins. I get so many comments! Our response when people ask is "no, we adopted one of them." They usually say, "oh, which one?" and we say "does it matter?" We don't think any differently between the two as they are both our children that just came to us different ways.
I too enjoy the Pearls' books! I am about to be a first-time mommy, and I am reading through "To Train Up a Child" for the second time. I want to have lots of children, and I want to serve the Lord by training up their little souls so I can enjoy each one of them. I see way too many exhausted and frustrated mothers, and I am praying that God would help me be the best mother I can be!
When you think about it, there is only one group of people I can think of who are 100% anti-spanking: children. Across the board, I have never met a child that enjoyed being punished this way, and that is the whole point. Children generally correct their behavior when spanked because they do not like being spanked. Not so much because they are in a lot of physical pain as a result of the spanking (if this is the case, perhaps the parents should re-examine their practices), but because they are startled, embarrassed, and made momentarily uncomfortable. Spanking (when not done abusively, of course) is such an efficient and effective means of discipline precisely because children don't like it, so they correct their behavior so as to avoid this punishment in the future.
1 reply · active 679 weeks ago
I think children avoid most forms of punishment. I know mine correct their behavior (and don't repeat it) after being grounded for a set amount of time or being sent to bed before their bed times. It all has to do with the parents being consistent and presenting a united front! Mom & dad MUST be on the same page regarding discipline for it to work.
Spanking certainly is not the only effective means of discipline, but it certainly should be an option parents utilze when necessary and appropriate. My only objection to spanking is when it is done in anger and the blows are disproportional ot the offense. Any parent who has a violent temper problem should not use the Pearls' advice as justification for hurting their children out of anger. Just as importantly, however, any parent with an entitled and disobedient child should not ignore what the Bible says about sparing the rod and simply fall back on "spanking is child abuse."
1 reply · active 679 weeks ago
Parents should keep their anger in check before doling out any form of discipline. Children won't learn anything from angry, ranting parents. We don't spank, but we do take time to rationally consider an appropriate punishment. You are right. If a parent choses to use physical discipline, they must make sure they are not crossing the line.
Thanks for sharing. I am a teacher, and I agree that parents teaching children not to rebel at a young age would make me life so much easier. I see teenagers that speak to their parents horrible. One girl told me this year that her dad knew he couldn't make any teenager do anything they didn't want to do . I invited to come to my house for a week. Ha. Needless to say, that young lady wants out of my class because she has issues with authority. What?!?! That was my response. Please keep up the good work. i enjoy your blog so much.
My mom told me that when I was little she was convinced that I WANTED to be spanked. She would specifically tell me "Don't do that, or I'll spank you." And a minute later, I would go and do that very thing! I was testing the limits, I was exploring the boundaries, and I was asking if my mom meant what she said. She did. I got spanked and I cried.

But I liked growing up with boundaries. I liked knowing that my parents cared. I liked knowing that I could trust my parents- that they meant what they said. They wouldn't take any crap from me and I'm a better person because of it. I'm 25 now and I love that my parents took the time to discipline me when I was little.
Vicki Walton's avatar

Vicki Walton · 679 weeks ago

Thank you for writing this and for continuing to support the Pearl's ministry. About 15 years ago I started reading their books and also get their newsletter. Our family life has been blessed by their Biblical teaching and efforts. I do remember Mr. Pearl saying years ago if you can't dicipline and be pleasant, then just be pleasant. The child will not be trained, but at least they will feel loved. However, if people would just follow through and pleasantly TRAIN their children, it would be the best.
Lori, we trained our 4 children pretty much how you said you trained yours, and I have to say it works. The 4 of them are now between the ages of 20 and 15, and very plesant hard working young adults. My comment all through the teen years when asked about having 4 teenagers in the house is "I love teenagers". However I do have a friend who has such a storng willed daughter, they tried spanking, time out etc nothing worked. So they went for the cold shower method, ie: you hold her under the cold shower for 10 minutes. They were desperate, and she was very strong willed and it took several cold showers, but eventually worked. For her brother however he just needed the threat of the shower and that was enough.

Post a new comment

Comments by