Monday, February 10, 2014

Dealing With A Rebellious Wife


Lori and I have had some fun and some frustrations with some of her more recent posts on a very hot topic of the propriety of a Christian husband, not just attempting to deal with his rebellious wife, but actually doing so with great results used by the Holy Spirit to produce a happy and peaceful wife. Lori did not, and does not, intend to make this issue a major theme, it just became a hot and important topic which we both felt needed a cohesive summary.

To be clear, Lori and I are not advocating that husbands everywhere discipline their wives. We are hopeful that your state of marriage is not such that you are a difficult or rebellious wife where such a thought must be even entertained. Although I will repeat that far too often husbands and wives punish each other with words, moods, scowls and withholding sex and the best of themselves, precisely because they want a response from the spouse. We see a world of difference between this unchristian behavior that is happening in Christian homes far too often, and Cabinetman’s heroic work in helping to redeem his wife from the pit of despair and rebellion.

There are a number of basics to keep in mind ~

We are not advocating that any husband "try this at home" without being covered in much thought and prayer, as it could prove to be a dangerous exercise. Being a leader is not an easy task, so if you are married to a difficult wife, only you and the Spirit can decide how to best lead her. And remember, the goal is not to be controlling or domineering, or showing off your muscle as a boss, but rather redemption of of a wayward wife, covered in love.

God says that ALL discipline is good for training, so we should not shy away from discipline in our lives, from God, or from other believers. This is not unjust punishment, as the word "discipline" implies that it is appropriate, and not at the whim of the leader{s}. 

All Christian discipline whether with elders to members, boss to employees, husbands to wives, parents to children should be the minimum correction necessary to obtain the desired long term godly results. 

No husband in his right mind should be requesting a wife to follow discipline that is unfair, unjust, or harsh. This would go against the two main rules for Christian marriage clearly established by God which are ~

1} Husbands are to sacrificially love and care for 
their own wives as if they were their own flesh; and
2} Wives are to be submissive and respectful towards their husbands.

Many who commented opposing the concept of a husband disciplining his wife gave all kinds of excuses, but the main one is that you cannot find such a command in the Bible. Yes, point well taken, but, there are many things not specifically given in the Bible concerning marriage, as God expects us to function freely within His specific rules of 1 & 2 above.

Whether a husband disciplines his wife or not should not be determined by these voices from those who profusely commented against Cabinetman's leadership ~

The Possibility of Abuse! – I am scared this may lead to abuse.
This is simply not politically correct, at least since the days of John Wayne and McClintock when “real men” handled their women differently.
What about him? – Shouldn’t he too have to undergo discipline by his wife?
Mutual Change – Why isn’t he changing and only expecting her to change?
WWJD -- Jesus would not treat His Church that way – Read Revelations 2-3; 3:19
He must be controlling her – OK, is that so bad if she consents to it?
He is arrogant“I've got a feeling and do not like his tone, so he must be wrong!”

The list of wild accusations were many with some condoning the character assassination of Cabinetman and others demanding more details. Few wanted to look at the facts of what Cabinetman and his wife wrote, or the excellent results of the discipline. And why? I suggest it is because the whole concept goes against our modern view of a marriage and what “oneness” and “one flesh” really means.

Cabinetman's wife came to her hero's defense and told some pretty dark details explaining more as to why Cabinetman saw the need to take drastic measures to try to redeem his wife and his marriage. As soon as his wife brought depression and thoughts of suicide into the discussion, Cabinetman and all readers where then coached by some detractors as to how awful he was to try to save his wife by "isolating her" and controlling her without professional help and intervention.

Tell me people... why expect a husband in such a desperate situation to handle everything perfectly? Many men would just cut their losses and leave, but Cabinetman, maybe warts and all, fought for his marriage. It all became about how Cabinetman could do nothing right, yet few wanted to see the bottom line.  Cabinetman, with the help of God, performed a miracle where he now has a happy, peaceful wife!

So Lori and I have nominated Cabinetman as hero of the week for being faithful to what he believed was God's call to redeem his bride and participate with the help of the Lord to turn her into the godly, loving and happy women who lives out the Spirit inside of her. And for putting up with the obvious malpractice committed by far too many commenters who based their concerns on guesswork and feelings, not the facts. 

For those of you who still think he was too hard, or too arrogant or too borderline abusive, I can only say that I hope you, or your husband, never are put in the same predicament. Cast your stones if you may, then realize that biblically you have no footing to stand upon. The Bible does not in any way say that a husband cannot discipline his wife, so long as his motives are in love and he believes it is best for his wife to be corrected, reproved or rebuked.  This is between him, his wife and his Lord. Not the loud voices, some who do not know God’s Word, and others who do not believe or follow it.

Do you want a great marriage and not just an ordinary marriage where two singles come together from time to time to create part-time happiness? I mean a hot, intimate, feeling of oneness type of marriage?  Or are you still too scared he might take advantage of you or abuse you? We are talking about your husband here, none other. Can he have your blessings to correct you, admonish you, rebuke you and discipline you?

You cannot have the type of marriage many long for until you are willing to be vulnerable enough to trust. Trust God and trust your spouse, and then step out and do things radically God’s ways, believing all of His Word, even the things that are hard to understand, or seem impossible to do.  This is the pinnacle of faith my friends, to take God completely at His Word. Then step out in faith and do not expect your husband will be perfect, but believe that God will honor his attempts at leadership as He honors your willingness to be faithful to His Word. 

"Let the wives submit to their own husbands in every thing. 
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, 
and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and 
cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."
Ephesians 5:24-26

Comments (38)

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Cabinetman · 581 weeks ago

I thank Ken and Lori for their kind words. Heroic is a bit much. I'm not a hero. I'm a survivor. It was a journey where my only guide was the bible and my gut instincts. I'm sure I did a thousand things wrong along the way but by God's grace came out the other side with a wife that is amazing, loving, and beautiful. Neither of us can imagine having a better marriage and we are blessed beyond measure.

One thing that is for sure, a ton of prayer and a ton of love need to be applied before any action is taken and then during the process, double the prayer and the love. What everyone missed in the story was that my wife was constantly told and shown that I loved her immensely in every way I could come up with. This was not a story of a husband being harsh. This was a husband who loved, but stood his ground.

Obviously I know it was God at work and not me, but my standing my ground allowed God to work. And that is all I want credit for, standing my ground. There was a thousand times I lost faith. A thousand times I misstepped. A thousand times the Good Lord probably covered my screw ups, for I'm as sinful as the next man. But if there is one thing I've learned about being a good man, husband and father is that when you know something is right, you stand your ground. There are so many variables that go into how to do that and when to do that and how that looks. But sometimes God just asks we trust Him, and despite everyone around us telling us otherwise, if God's Word and Spirit have impressed upon your heart, you stand your ground for your wife, for your family and for the Kingdom. I pray for those men that they have men who will support them in the battle. I had none and one or two would have made all the difference. Sometimes I felt like Moses, but with no Aaron and no Hur to hold up my hands as the battle raged. And ladies, you can be Aaron and Hur also in a pinch. The battle finally turned when I had one of my wive's friends stand with me.

After last week, all I ask is that my wife be off limits for ripping in your comments please. She's the world to me and I ask only for that.
1 reply · active 94 weeks ago
I have read many comments but just don't have time to read them all. I wanted to say thank you for sharing your story and being secure enough in your faith to do so.

Many ladies are missing the main point, God says in his word wives are to submit to their husbands and they are to respect them. The only time we are not to submit is if our husband asks us to go against the word of God. It doesn't have loopholes for us to do our own thing or exceptions like submit if he is doing this or that. We are to submit, period!

If you are married and not submitting to your husband in all things and not respecting him and his authority, you are not following the word of God. Your choice is to obey God or not and you will answer for that some day.
I am having some pretty unpleasant back pain to day. I offering it up for Lori and her pain she is experiencing. I have asked the Lord to please ease Lori's pain, and if I can take some of it I will. She is an awesome warrior for the Lord and it would be my honor to carry some of the burden. My prayers will continue stronger today. I hope to read in the near future that she has been released from all or at least some of her pain. Blessings to you both.
2 replies · active 581 weeks ago
Excellent summaries from Ken & cabinetman. A lot of grace here today... to God be all the glory! Prayers for Lori & Kathy to find relief from pain. Love, in Jesus, Cynthia
1 reply · active 581 weeks ago
Prayers of healing coming your way, Lori! I'm sorry you have been suffering. I know God is aware of you and your hardships and will bless you.
1 reply · active 581 weeks ago
Thanks Cynthia !
When Lori posts on an important topic like this she is trying to get her readers to think. To challenge them to work through what God's Word says about their individual role as a wife and mother. She typically does not like to present both sides of the story because when she does she feels that many women take it as a cop out.

One woman challenged me the other day when I told her that we try to take all of the Bible as literally as possible unless some things make little sense to take literally, or are obviously figurative. She retorted quickly, "What in the Bible can't you take literally?"

I said the part where Jesus says "if your eye offends you pluck it out." But we do take things like a wife's submission in marriage literally.

I got what is a typical response, "Well it would take quite a godly man for me to to be submissive to him!" She is married for many years to an unbeliever and somehow she feels that because he is not godly she does not have to submit. And she does not submit she runs the show.

Lori says so many wives are waiting for their husbands to be who they think they should be as spiritual leaders before they are willing to submit to them. This is all wrong as Paul is saying that a believing wife sanctifies her husband by being godly and submissive even when her husband is disobedient to the Word.

So hence much of the issue with Christian marriages today. There is two sides to the story and yet if one spouse is disobedient it is incumbent upon the other to still do all that God has called them to do, and for that they will receive a reward in this life and the next. Obedience from the heart will always be honored by the Lord.

Far too many Christian marriages waiting what they think is on the Lord to bring true intimacy and oneness, when God's Word has already given the answer... To step out in faith and do what God has called you to do... love your difficult wife... or be submissive to your disobedient husband. Then when faith is activated the power of the Spirit and Word can do their mighty works in the hearts and minds of spouses everywhere.

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers!
12 replies · active 581 weeks ago
Thank you so much Ken for your post and Lori, you are held, as always, in my prayers. Praying particularly for pain relief today.
Blessings
Helen UK
Thanks Helen,

Lori is walking around today, and even drove herself a half hour to the doctor's office and back for a blood draw... so she is not as bad as when I wrote this post :). Prayer is great and we know God will heal her in His timing, but we also know that she is being made perfect in her weakness and mightily used of God to help thousands of marriages do things God's ways. She is a living miracle each day in my life :)
2 replies · active 581 weeks ago
Thanks to all and praying for Lori's health.
1 reply · active 581 weeks ago
Lee Lee Bug's avatar

Lee Lee Bug · 581 weeks ago

Thanks Lori for always posting advice that is in-line with the Bible, even if it's not in-line with popular opinion. Ken is a blessed man.
Hello Ken and Lori, i understand my duties as a man,but with my wife not being submissive and doing things that are not matching up with the word of God my marriage is on the brink,I do truly Love her but she makes it really difficult,she mouth off in disrespect,and this has been going on for years,we're going into our 4th year of marriage and it's getting harder and harder for me to hold on,i admit we have some good days but only when things are going the way she wants and i pray and pray that things will change,but she's never submissive and seems that she'll never be,and I'm on my last stand,sometimes i think it's not God's will for us to be together,but by reading the word of God is what's keeping me holding on,but as i was saying I'm at the end of my rope,and when I try to talk and work things out even try to pray together she's not willing,I'm in no ways perfect but I'm striving to gain perfection,like I earlier I pray and pray but I'm starting to loose hope,it's just that it's been going on so long and i can't see the of the light of the day,and I do seek Godly advice but she doesn't,I feel as if I'm lost in the wilderness,i know already touched on this,but when I try talking to work it out she just gets more rebellious and it makes me feel like I'm weak and if i give in to the flesh it's not going to be good for neither of us,can you guys give me any Godly are Spiritual advice if so I would greatly appreciate it.Thank You!
2 replies · active 538 weeks ago
Where do I go for help and encouragement in dealing with a rebellious head strong wife, that is getting ungodly advise from her christian parents. She has left her home and children(encouraged by her parents), refuses to meet with the Elders in our church( further influence from her parents), however seeks to find peace with God her own way. May I add in my wife's defense she has suffered a stroke about 4 years ago, and suffers depression and some cognitive abilities.
Am surprised I have never seen anyone use the passage in Song of Solomon chapter 5 in the discussion of discipline. I find it a very interesting passage. He is knocking on the door. She doesn't go to open it because she has already cleaned up for bed. Until he stops knocking and leaves. Then she can't find him during the rest of the book.

I think it shows a good example of an effective approach to teaching a woman to follow. Instead of him breaking down the door, he went to go do other things as Solomon was a very busy man. That gave her some alone time a few days away from him to think about if she valued the relationship enough to follow him regardless of the circumstances or how inconvenient it may be. He didn't lecture her. He just gave her some space to realize how much she needed him, the same way God does with us.

They had no cell phones or facebook for her to message or call him. I think these modern conveniences clutter romance.
1 reply · active 416 weeks ago
Precious Ms. Lori,
I've followed you for quite sometime and I really admire your love for our precious Lord and for your husband. I must be honest in how disappointed I am to read the disturbing discipline methods that your husband endorses. In no way are these Biblical. ..He writes, "Far too often Christian husbands keep trying to chase their wife down with apologies they do not owe, and kind words that a wife does not deserve in order to get the relationship back on track. Does the parable of the lost sheep teach the heart of Christ to go looking for and rescuing the lost wife? .."..

God doesn't give us what we deserve, we deserve to burn in hell for all of eternity because of our sin and wretched hearts. Instead, our precious Lord gives us His perfect, sinless Son to take our sin upon Himself so that we may have access to God Almighty. His Word says that Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. (Ephesians 5) He does not give ANY conditions. (If she is respectful and deserves it) A woman is an adult and if she has a relationship with the Lord and is behaving wrongly, our precious Holy Spirit will convict her, He does not need the husband to help. The Word of God says that HIS kindness leads us to repentance. I've seen this in my own marriage. In times I have wronged my precious husband, he has reacted in gentleness and kindness which has resulted in me seeing the error of my ways. I have the UTMOST adoration, honor, and respect for my precious husband because He leads me to the cross in such a humble and gentle manor. He has pointed me to Christ and helped me to grow. We have an incredible marriage, and I'm forever grateful that the Lord gave me such a wonderful husband, a gift I don't deserve.

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