Should we obey our husbands if they ask us to sin? This question is always asked when I teach about submission, since God tells us to submit to our husbands in everything. I have found a book I think ALL of you should read. It is fabulous. The name is Me? Obey Him? by Elizabeth Rice Handford. She is now in her 80s and is married to a pastor.
This is what her husband wrote about her in 1972 when she wrote book. With forty-six years of watching her life as a dedicated pastor's wife and successful mother of seven children, I can say Libby "practices what she preaches." She is the most unselfish person I know. She has deep, abiding, biblical convictions and never steps over the line of respect for the authority of her husband. Not always has she agreed with me in everything, but she has never "bucked" any decision I have made. She has followed me, painfully sometimes, through my changing enthusiasms ~ whether the farm, photography, flying and now computers.
She has been mentoring women for many years. Whenever she is asked questions about obeying a husband who is asking her to sin, which always comes up with this topic since women love to talk about the exceptions rather than how well they are being obedient to their husbands, she asks them several questions ~
1. Have you been living in daily obedience to your husband as part of your wholehearted, loving submission to God? {This is an essential part of the problem. If a woman has not been submissive, God has no responsibility for her situation and cannot be blamed if her husband requires something wrong.}
2. Has your husband ever actually commanded you to do something wrong? In the hundreds of time I have asked these questions, not once, if my memory is right, has a woman answered, "Yes, I am always obedient, and yet my husband has required me to break one of God's laws." Never! Why? Because, when a woman takes God at His Word, submits to her husband without reservation, fears God and loves him, then God takes upon Himself the responsibility to see that a woman does not have to sin!
When women question me about this, who have no intention of submitting to their husbands but usually just want an out, I tell them that when I mentor women, I deal with the sin in their lives. If, per chance, one came to me and told me her husband did ask her to sin, I would want to know the exact situation and go from there. I am not going to make a blanket statement about this subject since I believe it is a red herring to get off of the topic of submission and water it down since I seriously doubt there are many husbands out there who command their wives to sin.
...so let the wives be subject to their own husbands in everything.
Ephesians 5:24
***For the record, I firmly believe a wife should NOT submit if her husband does ask her to do something that is clearly against God's commands since He is our highest authority.
Logging you in...
Sheree · 539 weeks ago
Ken · 539 weeks ago
Generally disagreement in front of the kids on any consistent basis is probably not a good thing. If it happens rarely, that may be life, or may be something your husband actually needs from his helper. Like if you you are in a car and need to go left or right and you are sure it is right even as he wants to go left, then it is time to speak up, as he cannot read your mind and needs your help.
Unfortunately, some people think they are always right, so they always speak their mind. You will have to choose to let some things go if it makes no difference. Correcting your husband on something you both watch on tv and he got it wrong is not a worthwhile endeavor, especially in front of the kids. Again, if it happens rarely it should be no problem at all, but if it is constant, you are displaying to the kids that you are always right and Dad is not as right as Mom.
The problem with many wives, and husbands are not excluded from this, is the knee jerk reaction to set the other party straight, even on the smallest of things. This constant correction is a learned behavior that often was passed down from a parent, or has just become a bad habit. Only you can look in the mirror and ask yourself if what you are doing is really being helpful or harmful, is a bad habit or a good thing, is respectfully necessary, or disrespectful.
I think where some wives may be is this innate sense of right or wrong when it comes to the kids. There are many wives who are sure they know best, so they exercise control by regularly setting their husband straight. They are convinced that they are right, so being right trumps respect and submission. My wife was one of these people who could not for years understand how it was wrong to constantly correct me if she knew better about the home, the kids, the BIble and politics. Sometimes I would say to her, "Lori, you may be right, but you're wrong in trying to always get me to think how you think." I later discovered that she did not think we could be close if I did not agree with her on everything.
So yes, you are to be your husband's helper and the best way to find out how you can be most effective as his helper is to ask him. If you want to move beyond helper to pleasing him, see if he asks you to speak your mind gently in private. It is far more effective than a wife who is enthusiastically pointing out to her husband and kids that Dad is not very wise so I have to always correct him. I will bet that half the time I was corrected by my wife she was right, and half she was wrong, yet she was sure she was right 99% of the time. Just keep that in mind when the urge to correct comes, that in the universe of issues the average is to be right only 50% of the time on a disagreement.
Sheree · 539 weeks ago
Jill York · 539 weeks ago
Lori Alexander 122p · 539 weeks ago
Sheree · 539 weeks ago
Ken · 539 weeks ago
I know it is impossible to think through how things are asked or said to a spouse in advance all the time, but it is probably best to formulate what you want him to approve, ask it lovingly in private, and know that if an extra expense is involved many husband's knee jerk reaction is to say "no." So I have never been a wife :), but I might think the following would be best from my help meet:
"Ken, I think that now that the kids are getting older we need to put some draws in their closets so that their clothes can be separated and easily found. Can you think about that and tell me when that might fit into your time and budget to help me with it? If you don't think it necessary I can live with that, but I think it could be done inexpensively, and be helpful in keeping their rooms and closet organized."
Then drop it and live with his decision. If he says no, or I will think about it, bring it up again after some time, at least a week and maybe a month. Give him time to digest the request or next time show him an example of what you want and how he can do it inexpensively, if money is an issue.
Bottom line... don't ask for two choices if you will be unhappy if he chooses against you. Tell him what you would like, and be sure to be happy when he chooses "no" or a different solution. Most Christian husband's are built to please their wife so long as they do not feel manipulated into it. That is why straight forward, honest communications is best and a happy disposition after a "no" will often turn it into a "yes" the next day without even asking again.
Sheree · 539 weeks ago
Wilhelmina · 539 weeks ago
Charlie · 539 weeks ago
Ken · 539 weeks ago
Your comments do not reflect a Biblical understanding of submission in everything. Although for most Christian marriages "just do it and don't ask" may be acceptable to a husband, it may not be to all husbands. Also, broaden your context out to perhaps include a financially strapped household, or one where the husband already feels she is spending too much and needs to get control of the budget. Then a wife just spends on the little things that add up to $300, or $1,000 at the end of the month, creating frustration and angst in the marriage. Kids have drawers now, but the marriage is suffering from the conflict.
Every godly wife should know her husband well enough to know if he will care or not about drawers or baskets. In this case, the husband obviously cared and preferred baskets, for whatever reason. The reason makes little difference to a wife who is trying to play her role of allowing him to be the leader of the family. That is what is most important, not baskets or drawers.
My suggestion to all wives is to have a discussion with your husband as to how he wants you to deal with the little, day to day things, perhaps even requesting a sensible monthly budget that you can decide what the priorities are for purchases in the home. If you want to spend six months of the extra budget on drawers, or the sum exceeds $200, then you still should seek your husband's approval, not because you are his child, or under his control, but because you do not want a purchase to be a source of misunderstanding or conflict in the marriage.
Although I am very far from being controlling, there was a time in my marriage that I felt my wife was way over budget in her spending. It was a new home, so everything needed to be new it seemed, and it was a constant source of conflict for us. Finally she came to me, asked for a budget and I low balled it, she said "fine" and that ended most of the conflict. I am sure she went over budget, but I could see that she was trying to please me.
And is that not what a true marriage is all about; pleasing one another instead of trying to get my own way, or go it alone with my way. Either we are one flesh and united in mind and spirit or we are not. It does not take conflict to create disunity, it simply takes not being in agreement or not seeking to please each other. Sheree is to be commended for her desire to please her husband, even if he were one whose knee jerk reaction to all financial requests was at first "no." Because she understands the bigger picture of creating unity by working within his personality and desires, not opposing him or making her own decisions that she knows may turn into conflict.
Wilhelmina · 539 weeks ago
Ken · 539 weeks ago
The fact is that the Bible is loaded with examples but not all examples become a model for a godly Christian marriage in New Testament times. The OT does not have the prescriptions for marriage that the NT gives and the New Testament is clear that a godly wife will want to "submit to her husband in everything." (Eph. 5:24) and "to respect and obey" her husband (I Peter 3:1).
I believe the Lord has zero problem with a wife taking initiative, even starting a business or purchasing land so long as she is confident her husband will approve. She does not have to check in on every little thing, but she should know before she does something that it will please him. I would prefer that my wife take initiative rather than ask me every little thing she can do and or buy, but not all husbands are the same as me, or Charlie.
Herein lies the major fault in your thinking. You want common sense and what you see as reasonable to determine what is right and wrong within a marriage, and how a wife is to submit. Instead of going to the Bible, your approach might go to a woman's Bible study and after a good discussion on the subject have a vote as to what a wife should and should not do, because it makes sense to the majority of wives and husbands. That is not a biblical marriage.
A Biblical marriage does what the Bible says, and that requires that a wife find out from her husband what will show him submission and respect. If he is being unreasonable the Bible has a prescription for this that you may not agree with, but again it is truly Biblical, "win him without a word by your godly behavior" and seek godly counsel from an older godly woman.
It is very possible that the Proverbs woman you speak of had hearty approval of her husband in what she was doing that is why he stands up and praises her. You cannot assume that she did any of her accomplishments without his direction and leadership. It is most likely that she could not buy the field without her husband's legal approval.
The bottom line is that the Bible is clear. If a Christian wife wants to please her Lord, and to willingly submit to her husband, she is going to learn his likes and dislikes and try to honor him in them. If he wants her to make her own decisions at any level small or large, she will try to please him, if he wants most decisions past first through him, she will check in more often.
All I am advocating is that all Christian wives ask their husbands how he wants to handle these things, if she desires that he be her leader. She, nor you and I get to decide how he should lead if he chooses to go contrary to what we find is common sense or reasonable, so long as he is not extremely unreasonable. I believe that to be very Biblical and honoring to the Word.
wendytamaryoung 37p · 539 weeks ago
Sue B. · 538 weeks ago
A couple things come to mind reading the excerpts from Mrs. Handford’s book. First, she says, “If a woman has not been submissive, God has no responsibility for her situation.” I question where in Scripture under the new covenant, is God responsible for bestowing or withholding earthly blessings based on our behavior? And second, Mrs. Handford says, “then God takes upon Himself the responsibility to see that a woman does not have to sin!” Again I question where in Scripture, under the new covenant, does God promise women that they will not lead into temptation if only their good behavior merits it.
I have not read this book, so I do not know how Mrs. Handford explains how God owes His creation blessings based upon their good works.
Ken · 538 weeks ago
The concepts of blessings bestowed on the obedient follower of God and blessings withheld from the disobedient follower (nation) run throughout the OT. In the NT the language changes as we are now called children of God. You still see that God allows His children to suffer the consequences of their sins and He is an active participant in their discipline to help drive them back to obedience. Here we find the OT concept brought into the NT:
"My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” (Heb 12:5-6).
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/blessing-g...
I don't think God ever stopped allowing blessings and discipline for our walk here on earth when the New Covenant is ushered in. We cannot "work" our way into heaven, but believers and non-believers can work to have the goodness of God abound in our lives by following God's wisdom. When we do things God's ways we reap His blessings. Many of those blessings are set in place with the founding of the earth, "that what a man sows he reaps." There is nothing particularly spiritual about the reaping unless we are doing it for the Lord and not selfish ends, but America itself, based on many Christian ideals and principles shows that physical wealth and abundance can come from just doing things God's ways, even after taking God out of it.
So on the bestowing of blessings, I see God actively bestowing blessings on His children as they walk by faith, and through His infinite goodness, allowing the blessings of the earth to fall upon those who sow well, and the hardships of life upon those who sow poorly. The wife who refuses to be submissive is sowing poorly and in turn reaping her full reward. She cannot expect God to come rescue her from the circumstances she is creating as God allows all to reap what they sow on earth, even as He has translated us into another eternal Kingdom. He must just shake His head at times with us, while allowing our self created ciurcumstances to be used as discipline in our lives.
The second sentence I don't get as well where she is pulling this from. One can go to the temptation and sin passages and discover that God does not allow us to be tested by temptation and trials beyond what we can endure. Perhaps she is saying that God is no longer responsible to stand on that promise if we are walking in disobedience? I might accept that as I am a firm believer that apart from salvation, if a Christian wants to grow up in Christ and be who God wants us to be, we must reach out and grasp God's promises by faith, and walk in them. Unlike the OT saint, the NT saint has ALL the promises of God guaranteed and we can walk in newness of life each and every moment of the day, but I find in my life that this only happens in the areas I truly believe God.
So if Gpo grants a wife this promise, is He required to keep it if we do not believe it and walk in the promise?:
" No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it."
Herein lies the biggest disconnect in the Christian life that God has given us so many wonderful promises which we want to hold Him to, yet is it possible that these promises are only activated and become true in our lives by believing them? That God has indded given us ALL we need for life and godliness, yet to be able to see this promise come true we have to reach out and appropriate it into our lives? That the same way we become saved by faith, we must walk by faith to enter into the promises God has in store for us here on earth?
If this is true, then Mrs. Handord is correct in the results, but perhaps has not chosen the best of words when she speaks of God's responsibilities and guarantees. All is guananteed already by the cross and God's promises, but just like one must grab ahold of the promise of salvation, so too must a wife believe God at His Word, which will result in obedience, in order safely rest in God's promises here on earth. God says he will give you a way out of any tempation, so in this Mrs. Handford is 100% right, but the seal of the promise may be our willingness to appropriate it in our lives.