Friday, September 26, 2014

Is Pornography Worse Than a Wife's Self-Righteousness?


Ken wrote a comment on another post about dealing with husbands who are addicted to pornography and I thought it was so good and relevant in today's culture that I made a post about it. Here are his thoughts on the subject ~

I am not sure about shaming your husband over pornography, although definitely he should be ashamed, but most of all accountability is what he needs. Sin hides in the darkness, so expose it to the light and it dies off. I suggest all wives ask their husbands daily, if the husband is agreeable to this idea, to hold them accountable if they were involved in porn the day/night before. Certainly they can lie about it, but most Christian men will have a hard time lying over and over again, at least without going into despair and a feeling of separation from God and their spouse. Exactly what may be necessary to drive them back to both.

The key to the accountability is not for the wife to act as if she just got shot every time he might say “Yes, I looked at porn.” Instead, try to think of how you would want your spouse to handle your sins. If you nag, are disrespectful, or unsubmissive, would you want to be shamed on a consistent basis? Or rather be held lovingly accountable with exposure to the light? If a wife can get her husband to agree, set up controls that help make him think more than twice about giving in to his temptation and sin.

“OK, don't you think it is time to do something about this. How about any time you tell me you looked at porn you have to go to bed when I go to bed at 9 p.m. the next night, not stay up until midnight. And you do the dishes the next three nights." Decide together what controls can help and see how much he really wants your help with accountability.

Always remember that it may be a mild or major addiction which by definition will be terribly hard to stop, and may be something that needs lifelong accountability. If a wife stops asking after hearing six weeks of “No” she is not being wise. Maybe after two or three years she can stop asking an addict, but even then it is best to ask once a week or month. Husbands can easily point out when a wife is sinning against them, but a wife cannot easily see a husband’s hidden sin, unless she asks.

Some wives cannot ask as they are too hurt when they find out he is sinning, and this is unfortunate. She has elevated her husband’s sins above her own and is short sighted, not understanding that all the tough things in relationships take time and great energy to get things right. There are perhaps “classes” of sin, or some sins as worse than others, but I am not convinced yet that porn is a much higher sin than many wives have committed against their husbands for many years. Maybe a controlling and difficult wife is not as grievous as porn, but many husbands, including me, have cried over our frustration with our wive's sins and unwillingness to change. The crying doesn't help, but accountability does, especially for true Believers.

I am generally not an advocate of taking a husband’s porn to the elders of most churches, nor taking a wife’s nagging, controlling or difficult ways to the elders. Few church elder boards are equipped to deal with the issues, so maybe take it to one elder or counselor for help, but keep in mind that even if your husband is a true believer the embarrassment and shame may drive a deeper wedge. The sting will last a long time. Be sure to tell him in advance of doing anything so it is not a bigger shock when he finds out. I am also not generally in favor of any reasons for separation, except in cases of abuse. Is this not why the apostle Paul says, “so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives” {I Peter 3:1}? And again look at Paul’s instruction on marriage to remain as one was called. If I am married to a difficult wife, she is my wife, and I must shine Jesus to her until the Spirit gets a hold of her life and works His miracles to remove her sinful habits. Why should it be any different for a husband’s porn?

I am not sure how God assigns negative values to certain sins, but I would think He would assign the worst of sins to the ones that cause the most damage. Far greater damage is done to a marriage and  family by constant conflict from needy or difficult spouses who allow feelings and emotions to rule their behaviors. The worst of sins for Jesus was the hypocritical self-righteousness of the Pharisees who were great at pointing out every one else's sins, but could not see that their own judgmental and unloving attitudes were far worse. 

Many husbands feel they are living with a Pharisee when their sins are paraded out as if they are somehow far worse than a wife's sins. A Christian wife can make a husband who dearly loves Jesus, and who shows it consistently to others, feel second fiddle in a marriage, all because his spiritual life never measures up to her expectations. This binds up a husband's ability to lead, and allows a wife to stay in control, not allowing the couple to progress to a true biblical or intimate marriage.

Porn is an ugly thing, so no excuses, but let's stop giving it a higher sin ranking than it deserves, or calling it equal in any way to real physical adultery. No, it is not the same as adultery and every wife should know this already in her heart. Adultery is a physical connection with person who is not your spouse which is the highest form of betrayal of trust. Porn is the stupidity of looking at a picture or video and dwelling on the digital illusion as if it is real to satisfy the cravings of the flesh. Both are sins, but one is not even real. If a wife sees "betrayal" in her husband's porn, she is pouring salt in the wound in a way God does not. 

Think about it. When we sin God says "sin no more! and remember I will always love you dearly." If you want to marry a perfect spouse, take Paul's admonition and never get married. If you want a fabulous one flesh marriage, learn to accept your spouse, warts, weaknesses, sins and all, and love them for who they are. This accepting love is the root on which true intimacy is built in a marriage, and with God. Can't we be Jesus to our spouse, with His seeming endless store of love, forgiveness and acceptance, no matter how many times we may betray him? 

May we all find the walk in the Spirit to which God calls us so that all sin will quickly fade away as our eternal perspective grows. May we learn to put away foolish things and focus on becoming image bearers who shine the life of Jesus wherever we go. May we learn to forgive our spouse for nagging, or porn and whatever their weakness until such time as God delivers them from it.

"Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony." 
Colossians 3:12-14

Comments (64)

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So when Jesus said
"Adultery
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" what did he mean? Surely men (or women) watching pornography is lustfeul, they're fantasising and enjoying it? That means they're thinking about sex etc with someone other than their spouse and he clearly says that's adultery, which last time I checked my bible is regarded as a fairly serious sin? I don't think many educated theologians would agree with you that you can brush off pornography so lightly if Jesus said even in a mind without action it is a sin and is adultery.
17 replies · active 547 weeks ago
Adultery is a physical connection with person who is not your spouse which is the highest form of betrayal and trust. Ken, I respectfully disagree. I believe if I have sexual intentions looking at porn, women, etc, I have committed a violation in my covenant with my wife. Matt 5:28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. "Heart" is the KEY word here. That's why Jesus, explained that he will judge the hearts of man. Why did he say this? He knew that every act- comes forth from the heart. That's why it's so important for guys, to live with a clean heart. I've been on both sides of this fence, but I'm washed, cleaned by god. I don't desire to let my thoughts go there, because then it will breed immorality. I did appreciate your message here. My wife, and I, recently had a discussion on this perception of sin. Our conclusion, all sin is sin. Is one sin worse than the other? I don't believe so. I do believe that some sins have greater consequences, regarding marriage, life, etc. blessings
3 replies · active 548 weeks ago
Additional comment. I think there are a lot of guys that confuse lust, with admiration. The beauty of a woman is to be admired. That's what god created her to be. It's ok if you notice her beauty. It's not ok to let your thoughts run wild. This is where I think a lot of guys get confused.
1 reply · active 548 weeks ago
A husband who partakes in forms of pornography is not only separating himself from loving his wife, he is also separating himself from loving God. It can be a first step to one's lossening of their morals and leading to eventual immorality of adultery. The husband who is caught up in pornography is valuing the image of another over their own wife. It does nothing to promote love or to uphold the wife's self-esteem.

Adultery can be physical as well as emotional. Either way, the innocent spouse is being betrayed.

I'm not understanding the comparison between nagging and porn. Any wife who finds herself in a position of having to deal with a husband who has a form of porn addiction should never feel it is her fault or that she needs to go it alone. The damage to one's self-esteem can take years to repair. Seek help and know it is okay to do so.
2 replies · active 548 weeks ago
Sorry we may have to agree to disagree Ksdee and Joseph,

Your comment Ksdee, "Adultery can be physical as well as emotional. Either way, the innocent spouse is being betrayed" has a part that is true, but there is no such thing as "emotional adultery."

It is precisely this perspective I am trying to wrestle against in the post above.

Look up the word "porneia" which is often translated fornication or adultery and it is a physical act:

"illicit sexual intercourse
adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,"
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv...

And fornication defined by Webster's:
"consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other"

Pornography is not in any way to be condoned by the church or in a marriage, but when we take the sin and extrapolate it out to something that it is not, "adultery," we compound the problem and create a bigger wedge in the healing process and cure.

Every sin is sinful and drives us away from God, Some sins do more damage than others. What I have regularly seen is that the wife who responds to a husband's sin with grace, love and accountability often wins her man far faster and better than the one who creates an artificial image in her her own mind that her husband is actually committing physical adultery.

There are only three ways to deal with circumstances in life. 1) Live with them and do not try to change them; 2) Try to change them; 3) Change your thinking about them to the truth.

If a wife finds herself in a marriage with a man who is into porn, her best bet is to first get her thinking straight about what is really happening and stop blowing it up to be something bigger than it really is. Second, try to see if she can help her husband, not shame or condemn him into a pattern of regular accountability, and then thirdly, be patient to "win him without a word by her own godly behavior."

Would you ever say to your husband, "You looking at porn is the same as committing adultery, so why don't you go out and do it." Then when he actually goes out and does it, are you telling me that your feelings will not then be 100% changed and you will see a huge divide between the lust and the actual physical act of sin?

No, it is never a wife's fault for her husband's sins, but some sins like porn can be reduced with a husband regularly getting his physical need for sex met by his wife, as God directs.

Yes, damage from porn can take years to repair, if a wife chooses for it to take years because of her bad thinking. What is my proof? All the wives who have changed their thinking and through love and grace have won their husbands away from porn. Same sin, but hugely different views of the sin and the response to it. If wives can get this right they can lessen their own hurt and pain and become helpful to the cure instead of becoming part of the wedge in the relationship. Again, no excuses for porn. It is a high level sin, but don't make it into something bigger than it really is by labeling porn emotional adultery.

And you are welcome to your views. I am not trying to change them, just trying to show you what we see as the truth on this important issue.
1 reply · active 548 weeks ago
I don't recommend that wives be the accountability partner for husbands who struggle with porn. Husbands and wives do need to be on the same page and have a shared plan for how they will combat and avoid temptation. They need to work together to put internet filters in place, make rules for computer usage, and things like that. But the wife doesn't need to be the one to ask her husband every day if he's looked at porn. Ideally, he would have a male Christian friend to act as an accountability partner. It might be too hurtful for the wife to ask every day and hear the failures and it also puts the wife in the position of nagging or being bossy about it. Keeping someone accountable requires a certain level of authority and the ability to push hard and call someone to do better while also being encouraging - which is very difficult for most wives to do well when they are dealing with the pain of betrayal. It's also hard for wives to make an objective assessment of their husband's progress because they are so deeply involved. It makes more sense for men struggling with porn to have a male friend who can hold them accountable, provide encouragement, and call them out when they mess up.
7 replies · active 548 weeks ago
Emotional adultery is when a spouse is attached to someone else and confides in that person that which belongs in a marriage. Emotional adultery often leads to physical adultery - both are sinful. Accountability is important - porn can escalate in some situations.
3 replies · active 548 weeks ago
Ken, I'm very surprised to see you take such a gentle view of pornography. While I do agree with you that it's not our job to determine which sins are the most egregious, I think it's a poor comparison to argue that porn and nagging are on the same level. Pornography (and here I'm thinking of movies, in particular) is part prostitution - "actors" get paid; and it also sullies the marriage bed of each actor involved.

I find the question of whether viewing porn is adulterous a really interesting one. You noted above that adultery is fleshly, rather than viewing images on a screen. But....to be blunt, isn't there generally some fleshly sin involved in viewing porn? Something to ponder, no?
1 reply · active 548 weeks ago
Your reaction to a Situation,
Literally has the power to change
the Situation itself.
1 reply · active 548 weeks ago
Min Soo-Yun's avatar

Min Soo-Yun · 548 weeks ago

I agree that women have their own sins and one is not greater than the other. I agree that it isnt right to act out of anger or self righteousness but to be kind, tender hearted and forgiving. But I also agree that images of the mind are adultery in the heart. And I dont think its unfair to say that women shouldnt feel betrayed. They absolutely DO! And remember, we ARE emotional creatures, weaker vessels, and we feel despised and rejected in the eyes of our husbands when they look at another womans body, as if our bodies arent good enough. The woman should most definitely respond gently and with love, not forgetting her own sins but it hurts deeply. Especially with the pressures on women in todays society that if they dont have the shape of a teig then they are considered ugly and fsr from perfection. It takes time for that hurt to go away. NO! We should not hold it over his head or punish him for by NO MEANS! All Im saying is a women feels deeply hurt and betrayed and ugly when it comes to light.
2 replies · active 548 weeks ago
Min Soo-Yun's avatar

Min Soo-Yun · 548 weeks ago

*fair
This is a fascinating post. All "addictions" (for lack of a better word), including porn use, are classified as "diseases" by the secular world. Yet we know we do not fight against flesh and blood in the Kingdom of God, but against powers and principalities that exalt themselves above God (demons.) So, why in the world are we (women and men of the Church) trying to fight this natural stuff with anything less than the supernatural?

Oh, I know this sounds good in theory. But how does one flesh it out?

I think Ken is really onto something.

Does the wife of an alcoholic feel betrayed? Yes, of course. Does the wife of a cocaine addict feel betrayed? Ditto. Does the husband of a shopaholic feel betrayed? Absolutely. In the world's eyes, the offended spouse takes this information to a secular counselor or even a friend who says, "Well, your spouse cannot help themselves - it's a sickness - a disease. If they won't go to AA or NA or shopaholics anonymous...leave them and spare yourself." YOU are "better" than getting treated like that! YOU are better than living with that kind of "abuse." The world would have the offended spouse turn the offending (sinful) spouse into the enemy.

Never mind that the offended spouse in the above scenarios ALL undoubtedly suffer from the root disease of sin - original sin - as they have a condition of sin that cannot be healed apart from Christ. The focus must be taken OFF of the sin of the offending spouse and placed upon Christ alone.

I think this is what Ken is trying to say; you will have to correct me if I am wrong. It's not simply an exchange of sin-consciousness by shifting the focus (for the offended spouse) from their spouse's sin to their OWN sin - God forbid! Than we have accomplished nothing more than sin-consciousness. This is a natural thing and a natural emotional human reaction. We are to look for a supernatural solution to the problems in this life, including the problems in marriage. While it is good for the offended spouse to come to the initial realization that they ALSO suffer from the root disease of sinfulness...we don't want to camp out there, incessantly comparing our sins and trying to compete for who is less wicked! We've only made it through the doors of the Outer Court and we're nowhere NEAR The Holy of Holies!

Ken is saying that we fight in the Kingdom not each other, but we fight with supernatural weapons. The supernatural weapon is Love. Now, I don't pretend to know what love is - I'm a broken woman who sees everyday how far I fall short of knowing...but I know Who Love is, and I'm determined to follow Him. He tells me how to treat people. He says to treat them with Love, gentleness, forgiveness, long suffering, temperance (self control). He tells me to be angry and yet sin not; to not allow the sun to go down on my anger. He tells me that gentleness in conversation turns away wrath and draws my spouse to Him (and me.) He tells me to forgive an immeasurable number of times when I'm offended.

How many marriages would be saved if we stopped seeing the addicted spouse as "diseased" and ourselves as "well?" We ALL suffer from the disease of sin in this fallen world; in our fallen state. As Ken wrote in a recent article, we use the supernatural weapon of reckoning ourselves DEAD to sin - and we cease being offended and carrying around a scorecard of whose sin in worse - and we allow God's Love to come into the situation.

I don't think the "disease" of porn use/addiction is any worse than the disease of sinfulness that we all suffer from and we wives must guard against self-righteousness at all costs, by elevating ourselves above our spouses in word and deed. Is it bad to find your spouse is using porn? It's horrendously painful. I'm walking through it now. Do I need to see that I am not without sin in order to release this offense in forgiveness to the Lord toward my husband? Yes, indeed. It makes no sense to wallow in both of our sinful condition, being victims. Wouldn't the enemy of our souls just love that to be our stopping point? Do we stop there? NO! We go on and seek healing and wholeness - sozo - salvation in every area of our lives, by God's grace. If our spouse doesn't want to address their own sin, we address ours and we seek to help our spouse come to wholeness himself.

I think it is an amazing concept to not get stuck in the rut of condemnation of either spouse or self by elevating sin consciousness above God-consciousness. I hope what I have written makes some sense. Thank you for the post.
3 replies · active 548 weeks ago
Well said Lindsay, and I agree with all you are saying. I am simply trying to lend some perspective to this important issue of today's culture. I may do a follow-up post summarizing much of the good discussion. And trying to dispel some lies that women tell themselves when their husband is found in porn.

"Why is my love not good enough for him?"

"What is wrong with my body?"

"Does this mean he does not love me anymore?"

"Can I even trust him again with anything?"

These are lies planted by Satan that if a wife does not quickly throw them out they will take her to places God's Spirit does not want for her or her life.

Men can look at porn while still loving their wife, being thrilled over their wife's body, and finding nothing wrong with their wife. I am not saying that this is the case in all porn use, because some use comes from dissatisfaction, but without knowing the surveys, I can guess that most Christian men who see porn do it infrequently, often do it when they get some alcohol in them, and it may even stem in many cases from a form of self-pity. Especially if they think their relationship is not on track with their spouse. Again, I am not wanting to minimize the sin, but to expose to wives what some of the bad thinking is behind their husbands sin.

Also, unfortunately too many young husbands bring the nasty habit into the marriage. It may disappear for a time, but when the things above mentioned set in, they begin to dabble again with an old wicked friend.

Here's the fact. You as a wife could be the most wonderful, submissive, godly wife ever, and have a body that 99% of what other women would die to have, and still your husband could get into porn. Bottom line is that apart from a wife withholding sex, there is a lot that drives a man towards porn with his own fleshly inclinations towards wanting to explore variety, and feeding his lust of the flesh and lust of the eyes.

What I do not get is that if almost every wife knows this is her husband’s greatest battle with sin, why is it such a shock when she discovers he is sinning in this way? Also, if it hurts so badly, which I am sure it does, why not recognize that much of the hurt has to do with unrealistic expectations created by her own thinking, and perhaps lies that she now tells herself, of which some are listed above?

You may say it is “natural” for a wife to think the worst about herself when her husband is caught in porn, and I think then you will have proven my point. What is natural is fleshly and what is fleshly is not of the Spirit. The same flesh that propels a husband to go to porn is the same flesh that propels a wife to think the worst and allow her emotions to now rule her, instead of allowing Jesus to flow in any throw her.

Anonymous said it so well, “The focus must be taken OFF of the sin of the offending spouse and placed upon Christ alone.”

We were all sinners, now some of us are saints. Saints still sin until we are called home to be with Jesus, but our calling is to walk in holiness in every area of life. We cannot control a spouse, but we can shine the light of Jesus on his/her life, and patiently wait until the Lord does His miraculous healing of the sin in their life. In the mean time we remain as we are now called to be, saints, image bearers of Christ, no matter where he calls us, no matter what the suffering.

If my spouse is walking in sin God’s call on my life is to be Jesus to him/her. Not Ken, and his fleshly thinking and ways, but Jesus in all his patience, love and kindness, forgiving all sins, sexual or not sexual, and without partiality. This is our gospel, this is our faith!
1 reply · active 548 weeks ago
I just ran across a post distinguishing between types of sexual sin, using 1 Corinthians 6:9&10 In these verses Paul distinguishes between at least 4 categories of sexual sin. In my NASB we find "fornicators, adulterers, effeminate, & homosexuals". My point is that adultery is not the only type of sexual sin. When Jesus said the exception to divorce was "unchastity", He was referring to general sexual perversion or immorality. Read Matthew 5:32 where Jesus Himself distinguishes between general sexual, (unchastity) sin & adultery. To me, it is so obvious that Jesus allows one to divorce a sexually perverted person. We know of a man who was masturbating IN THE LIVING ROOM with three stepdaughters in the house! Who in their right mind would stay with a person like that? Ken & Lori, you sort of live in a bubble when it comes to how awful sexual sin can be. You are simply wrong about your definition of Biblically allowed divorce. Love & prayers, in Jesus, Cynthia
2 replies · active 547 weeks ago
his daughter's avatar

his daughter · 547 weeks ago

How would you deal with the addiction if it was drugs and not pornagraphy, do you still respect and submit to and honor a husband in this situation
1 reply · active 547 weeks ago
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is some of the "collateral damage" of porn.

It's not always simply a matter of repenting the sin done to the wife and having her forgive him. There may be others harmed by the porn.

Many years ago, I helped some young teen moms who were dealing with some extreme difficulties in life. Their own family backgrounds were horrible, and many had 2 or 3 children before the age of 20. Several of these desperate girls turned to stripping. At the same time, a friend of my husband kept talking about the "hot girls" at local strip club. He wanted to buy into this fantasy that the strippers were all doing this because they were "hot". He didn't want to hear my stories, didn't want to know that he was looking at 19 year old girl with 3 kids struggling to keep custody and put food on the table.

Exploitation is rampant in the sex industry. Does a man know when looking online if the woman in a video was truly over 18, fully sober, and not coerced? The enormous market for online porn is fueling some truly evil abuse, esp. when it comes to things like child porn and trafficking of women.
I think adultery & fornication have two different meanings because of Jesus' Words in Matthew 15:19 ..."out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witnesses, slanders..." If the two words mean the same thing, Jesus would not have repeated Himself. I have been thinking & praying about this & believing the Word would have the answers! Then I heard this verse on the radio! Surely God's Word is perfectly applicable to all contemporary issues!
This is an important topic & I believe it grieves God greatly, as well as warrants His judgement. I think we should consider the example of Onan spilling his seed on the ground...God killed him because of that act.Genesis 38:10 It says God considered Onan's act to be wicked. I think in many ways, pornography might be considered more wicked to God, than even simple adultery. Afterall, simple adultery doesn't include horrible acts perpetuated upon innocent children. I do not think women should be taught that pornography is not adultery, when Jesus said simple lust is adultery of the heart. Of the heart, but adultery nevertheless. I adamantly, but respectfully disagree with Ken & Lori on this topic, but I will continue to pray for them. Love & prayers, in Jesus, Cynthia
HI Cynthia,

I will respond more fully when I have the time, but to your first point, that adultery and fornication must be two different words, your logic may be correct, but go to the actual Greek and study the word that Jesus uses. In both cases the word is derived from "moichos" which means adultery. As I wrote to you above:

Jesus is clear that even the topic of divorce was an exception allowed because of the hardness of hearts. He clearly uses the word "moichos: an adulterer" which by definition is physical sexual intercourse outside of the marriage bed. The other sexual sins you list are indeed a higher class of sins it seems, but the only exception God's Word gives for divorce is adultery. http://biblehub.com/greek/3432.htm

So the word translated as fornication may mean something other than adultery, but not the word "moichos" which is what Jesus uses in Matt 5 as the only exception given for divorce in the Bible.

We try true to the Bible in all we teach and believe. I am willing to stand corrected once you can tell me that the word "moichos" somehow does not mean adultery, and only adultery. Look up the word and study it.

I may respond more later, and we appreciate your concern and prayers, but our view on this subject has been long held by the church for some 2000 years. It is only now when Christians want to read back their own individual experiences into God's truth that there has been been much of any disagreement on the fact that the Bible teaches adultery alone as grounds for divorce.

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