A godly woman must be faithful to her husband, even if she doesn't have one yet. The same thing applies to men. This is why teenage dating is so dangerous. You must teach your children that every person they date, they should treat as someone else's spouse until there is a ring on their finger.
Paul admonishes men to treat younger women as sisters, with absolute purity. I think the Duggars are on to something. They don't even hold hands until they are engaged. Until you exchange wedding vows with someone, you are not their spouse. We are called to purity. We are called to respect other's purity. Each couple needs to set their own boundaries with this in mind.
Teenage dating is is often a futile exercise with too much of its purpose to satisfy the cravings of the flesh. There is rarely any thought for the other person's future spouse, just for themselves. When couples begin a physical relationship before they even know each other, it is dangerous, very dangerous, since they are thinking with their emotions, instead of their heads.
This is why Paul warns men to treat younger women as sisters. He knows how easily we can get swept away once a physical relationship begins because sex and everything that starts the engines revving for sex, belongs in marriage.
We are commanded to keep the marriage bed pure. This should begin WAY before marriage. Purity needs to be taught often to your children. Hollywood seems to portray that the only ones having fun with sex are those who are not married. {NO sexual content should even be shown on the TV!} Often the couple meets and on a first or second date they are rolling around the bed together with zero thought towards their future spouse.
Sex is reduced to nothing but pleasure. There is no spiritual component to it. There is no thought of two becoming one flesh. They don't think of all the dire consequences to the mind, body, and emotions as a result of having sex outside of marriage. It's all considered freedom for self. But when your freedom begins to affect your future marriage, is it really free? Selfishness is never free, but sometimes the cost comes in missing out on God's best. Remember, God rarely has to discipline His children with much more than allowing us to suffer the consequences of our own sins.
Sex must be is a precious gift you give your spouse. It was made only for your spouse, and no one else. Your children will listen to you on this essential subject if they respect you and they respect authority, especially the authority of God's Word.
When your children are "in a relationship," don't be afraid to ask them if they are treating each other like brother and sister. We all need accountability. We aren't suppose to be an island to ourselves. Sin is ugly and leads to terrible consequences. Help your children in this battle for purity. They CAN do it with the help of the Spirit!
Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father;
and the younger men as brethren;
the elder women as mothers;
the younger as sisters, with all purity.
I Timothy 5:1, 2
Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father;
and the younger men as brethren;
the elder women as mothers;
the younger as sisters, with all purity.
I Timothy 5:1, 2
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FREEINDEED · 548 weeks ago
Lori Alexander 122p · 548 weeks ago
Sandy N · 548 weeks ago
Lori Alexander 122p · 548 weeks ago
Maria · 548 weeks ago
Lori Alexander 122p · 548 weeks ago
Ken · 548 weeks ago
Most importantly, remember that a part of the reasons some children are home-schooled is that they do not fit into a regular school setting either by mental-emotional make up, or behavior issues. Also, a full 25% (21 respondents) were not even religiously home schooled, so within the sample are "apples and oranges" from any meaningful perspective speaking to evangelical Christianity.
Our kids like so many home schoolers were not home-schooled K-12, but instead spent maybe 2-5 years in homeschooling. They might have spent more years had we not had a fabulous Christian High School to send them to. Some day I hope to see a survey that actually samples just evangelical homeschooling vs. others and see the results.
Home-schooling in itself is only as spiritually worthwhile as the godly parents who teach and participate in it. We used many outside resources and at least one day a week was spent with a large group of other home-schoolers with subjects like the sciences and other classes hard to teach from home. Most of the new generation of home-schooled kids are talk with great outside help and are not exclusive;y taught from home. Many rarely spend all their years being home schooled, yet they are considered to be home schooled in the surveys.
Chris · 548 weeks ago
Lori Alexander 122p · 548 weeks ago
Chris · 548 weeks ago
Anna · 548 weeks ago
Cynthia · 548 weeks ago
I question, though, the specific idea of being faithful to a FUTURE spouse. Is that particular idea Biblical?
My questions/concerns are:
1. Is it even possible to treat a date like someone else's spouse? Even if there was no physical contact, I'd be distressed if my husband was having a romantic dinner with another woman and thinking about a relationship with her. Even on an emotional level, dating will involve some feelings.
2. Marriage vows mean something. It's a very serious promise to forsake all others. From that point onward, we are required to be faithful. It seems odd to expect someone to be bound by a vow before it's made. [Someone may be chaste for other reasons, such as being obedient to God or wanting to make the best choices for their life, but that's different from being faithful to a future husband.]
3. By framing this as an issue of being faithful to a future, unknown spouse, are we actually creating conflict in some marriages? Most people understand that marriage vows mean that you are committing yourself to your spouse. It's expected that cheating after marriage is going to make a spouse feel hurt and angry, because you are breaking your solemn promise to them. Most people today, though, are NOT raised with this idea that any relationship you have means that you are cheating on a future spouse. I know a couple who ultimately divorced because he was very upset that she had a relationship before meeting him, and couldn't get over his anger, while she felt that she hadn't done anything wrong to him.
Ken · 548 weeks ago
Yes Cynthia, the whole concept being faithful to a future spouse can be seen in the requirements of the law, and the strong discipline God exacts in the OT for those who have premarital intercourse:
Deuteronomy 22:22: "But if this [l]charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her [m]to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you."
Deuteronomy 22:28 - 29 it says, "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."
Romans 13:13: "Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy."
The concept Lori is advocating is a logical outcome from the scriptures that if the marriage bed is to be held sacred and pure, why wouldn't it make sense that this should begin before marriage?
1) You should treat a date "as if they will be" someone else's spouse. That is what the "like" implies here. The Bible does not say anything about emotional involvement before marriage, but it does speak to sex before marriage. Guarding one's emotions makes it easier to avoid sexual temptation and being devastated if the relationship does not work out. We taught our kids to "guard your heart" until you are pretty confident that this is the right one. At some point you must let go and make an emotional commitment. Ideally that is after your head makes the right decisions then the heart follows.
2) No one is bound to vow before it is made, but they certainly know the vow is coming. Would you not agree that the flip side is true? I know I will be married some day so I am going to bed as many women as possible because I have not yet made my vow. What does that say about your commitment to a future spouse?
We fully understand that in today's world far too many Christian kids are having sex before marriage. There is forgiveness from God and a future spouse for this, but one of the reasons these Christians are fooling around before marriage is they never stopped to place any significant value on the person God will be sending to them to become their one-flesh spouse. If they stopped to think about this reality, maybe the value placed on that future relationship could prevent pre-martial sex.
My son just finished his orthodontic residency mainly because he valued the idea of being an orthodontist so much that he studied his brains out for 9 years and decided to forgo the partying, and even dating for long stretches of time. If someone can sacrifice for a career, why should they not be expected to sacrifice for a godly pure wife? There are many a godly girl and guy who have lost out on a pure spouse because they themselves did not keep themselves pure.
3) I don't understand your future conflict issue, especially in light of the fact of your 2. argument "forsaking all others." If two believers are getting engaged they should have discussed the issue or premarital sex and determined that it would have no effect on their future marriage, all is forgiven and dead and buried in Christ, or it would have an affect and each party should disclose past sexual relations. The marriage vows themselves assume many things, but one of them is that I am not marrying a fraud. One cannot completely misrepresent who they are and their past to the one making the vow. That is fraud. This is why full disclosure up to the point the other engaged party wants to hear it is vital. And often this is why fathers need to ask the tough questions.
What your last illustration did wrong was to defraud her future husband, if she represented herself as pure and she was not. It is possible the subject never came up, or that she felt she did not have to disclose it, but the fact is that every time you have sex you take with you a part of a former lover if in nothing else, an image or thought. That is why Lori's message is so important for young people today to hear. They should not consider pre-marital sex free. It has many costs that translate into both who one will ultimately marry, and in the marriage itself.
Cynthia · 548 weeks ago
I looked up those verses in Deuteronomy and some of the commentaries.
One odd thing is that the punishment for sex with a girl who is not betrothed is simply marriage, without divorce. The punishment for sex with a girl who was betrothed, though, was death for both.
Deut. 22:13-21 can be a hard passage to understand, and to see how it fits in with the rest of the laws. I found one interpretation that "I took this woman" in Deut. 22:14 means that the man betrothes the virgin, and "and when I came to her" refers to their later wedding. At the time, there was often a significant lapse in time between betrothal (a stronger term that just engagement, since a woman who was betrothed was off limits to other men on penalty of death) and consummation of the wedding. So, according to this interpretation, what the man is really saying is that the girl cheated on his AFTER the betrothal, but before the consummation. [We see this situation in Mary and Joseph, and can appreciate just how serious Mary's situation would have been.] This goes along with the other passages, which prescribe a much heavier penalty for sex when the girl is betrothed to someone else as opposed to unbetrothed.
I agree that honesty before marriage is important. With the couple that I mentioned, the issue wasn't discussed at all.
Ken · 548 weeks ago
Honesty requires us to acknowledge that although the scriptures seem very clear about virginity before marriage and never permitting adultery once in marriage, some things the OT says and in the law make it difficult to know the mind of the Lord fully on the issue of sex. I am sure the Lord much prefers not legislating, but instead asking us to please Him in all things. True love stems from a desire to please, not from keeping laws, and so each couple must seek the Lord in their relationship, and if things go to far, know that if anyone understands it is the Lord as He gave the strong desires. But He also wants His best for us, and premaritial sex is not His best, it has consequences, especially if the marriage never happens.
Cynthia · 548 weeks ago
It's just the particular idea that a prior relationship is somehow a form of cheating on a future spouse that you don't even know yet.
Teaching this would seem to give people not just a reason to abstain themselves, but to be angry and hurt and take personal offense if a spouse had a prior relationship. I can appreciate that all of our prior life experiences shape us and have consequences. This teaching, though, goes beyond that and suggests that a spouse should take prior conduct personally and feel betrayed. If a couple wasn't raised with this idea, but learns it after marriage, I can see it causing strife and hurt.
I've known many people who didn't abstain and maybe hadn't even thought of marriage, but then they mature and make a wholehearted commitment with their marriage vows. With some friends, this was part of a process of returning to religion. Do you not believe that someone can be renewed, and not shackled to prior sin for life?
Also, how does this idea work in the case of widows? There is absolutely no sin in remarrying after the death of a spouse. This mindset that someone is somehow ruined by prior intimacy with someone else, though, would make someone look down on the idea of marrying a widow.
Desiree · 548 weeks ago
I have watched several young couples meet and marry at my church. There is the initial interest. Then the casual group type get togethers or family dinners where they get to know eachother a little better. Prayerfully seeking God's guidance during this time. Then parents are asked their opinions. Courtship begins. From there things blossom to engagement and marriage. This whole time they have never been alone together. That ensures they are pure on their wedding night. It is such a beautiful thing to watch unfold. I pray it for my son as well.
Anna · 548 weeks ago
I very respectfully disagree. I don't think that going out on dates with many people leads to purity problems--quite the opposite in fact! Young people often want to be with the opposite gender. By allowing opportunities for them to meet and socialize in safe environments (I did not include earlier that my husband and I don't allow one-on-one dating before they have graduated high school, they must group date before then and we must meet all their dates and friends before they spend time with them) they can meet many people and satisfy that desire to be around boys or girls. But by limiting it to group settings and requiring them to be around LOTS of different people they don't get too attached to one person. Instead they are able to go and interact with boys and girls, learn something about how the other gender thinks, and see what traits they value for a future spouse without creating a relationship that is romantic or particularly emotional. We also feel this helps avoid rebellion or sneaky behavior in seeking to be with a particular romantic interest (which I confess I was guilty of as a teen). We modeled most of our dating rules after my Grandmother. She was a wonderful Godly woman and when she spoke of dating in the 20's it was much as I have described our system. She went on group dates with many boys for years and was able to learn what she wanted in a Godly husband so when she met him she didn't have any doubts about what kind of man he was! and they were married for 63 years!
I also disagree somewhat with youth leaving pieces of their heart behind. I think that any romantic interest in someone else can cause you to give a piece of your heart away--not just dating relationships. But we certainly don't want to discourage our children's romantic interests--how else will they allow God to lead them to a Godly spouse? Rather I prefer they spend time with other Godly youth and learn all they can now so when God leads them to a spouse later they know what traits are important.
Again, no disrespect intended! This is simply what has worked for my family, and we have found it works very well!
God bless!
Lady Virtue · 548 weeks ago
wendytamaryoung 37p · 548 weeks ago
Guest · 548 weeks ago
Cynthia · 548 weeks ago
Practically, how does the right person come along?
Many in my community do not do casual dating and there aren't many mixed activities, but when someone is ready to get married they (and their parents) will use matchmakers or online religious dating sites and actively search for a potential spouse.