Always Learning: Feminists Will Hate This

Thursday, November 10, 2011

Feminists Will Hate This

Even a lot of Christian women will hate this post. It is on the subject of submission and obedience. If you aren't a believer, maybe you shouldn't even read it...

I have seen through writing this blog that many women detest the idea of submission and obedience to their husbands. They even say that those words are not in the original Greek thereby, not true for today. Oh my! I don't even want to debate them on that one. I am just going to let God's Word do the convicting ~

That they may teach the young women to be...obedient to their own husbands...

Titus 2:4,5

Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Genesis 3:16

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

I Corinthians 11:3

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

Ephesians 5:22-24

Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Ephesians 5:31

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Colossians 3:18

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation {way of life} of their wives.

I Peter 3:1

She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

Proverbs 31:12

A man will resist with all his might those who come against him. Most women spend their whole married lives in conflict with their husbands, trying to change them. It is a battle of the wills that no woman has ever rightly won, for even if she gets his compliance, she loses his heart, and he loses his self-respect.

When a woman resists or tries to change a man, she makes him more stubborn, and her own heart will be filled with bitterness. If a woman obeys God, a man does not have anything to come against, to resist, to dominate, to conquer, or to beat down. A woman's greatest power is in obeying God through obeying and honoring her husband. {Debi Pearl}

Amen!

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Kathy · 698 weeks ago

Very well said. I agree with you completely! Bless you!
Kathy

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Yasmin · 698 weeks ago

Amen! I've been reading a lot on submission lately & can say that God has worked miracles in my marriage through submission. Thank you for a great post. God bless!

1 reply · active 675 weeks ago

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Misty · 698 weeks ago

I have questions. Not to be argumentative, just sincerely interested and curious. What if the wife is a believer but the husband is not, therefore not behaving with a Christlike spirit? What if he is but doesn't make decisions that are in the best interest of the wife, marriage, or family? What is the wife to do then?

3 replies · active 697 weeks ago

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Kristina · 698 weeks ago

I think this is very well written. I will be honest in saying that when my husband and I were first getting married, we had many arguments, because I was so deadset on the fact I was not to submit to him. I wasn't educated on what it meant, nor was I in the deep understanding. Our first year of marriage was the toughest because I was still learning, and God did some serious work on my heart and I learned what it meant to be submissive and live the way I was meant to. When I stopped being strong-headed in this, our marriage got better, and better, and now - I'm so blessed in our marriage.

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myinnercheerleader · 698 weeks ago

I think I submit to my husband without even being aware of it. As mushy as it sounds, I am so madly in love with everything about him, I can't help myself. I see other women consider this as a weakness, but he is my greatest blessing.

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FABBY · 698 weeks ago

I agree with "My Inner Cheerleader"...I think I submit without being aware at all. I'm crazy about my handsome, terrific and wonderful hubby for almost 37 years. I agree again, hubby is one of the blessings I have to be thankful for this coming Thanksgiving. Women that are treated badly nowadays is because we have lost respect coming from men for wanting to act and be like them...we are not alike and that is the beauty of God's creation, He gave us very separate and different roles in life. Thank you for this great post and it's refreshing to hear there are women like me out there, not stupid, not old fashion, but loving and very smart, actually! Love, FABBY

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FABBY · 698 weeks ago

Oh, if you ever come to visit I have a pic of the love of my life, right there in my blog. Thanks for sharing. Hugs,
FABBY

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Amy · 698 weeks ago

I understand that the wife is supposed to submit and obey her husband. He in turn is supposed to love his wife as Christ loves his church. Even if the husband is not Christian, the wife must submit, unless what the husband is asking is a sin against God. If the wife and husband love and respect each other this would work. But what if the husband is not so kind or is selfish. Where is the line drawn? For example, what if a husband wants his wife to cut relations with her family? What if the husband asks his wife to do something in sexually, that makes her uncomfortable? I’ve counseled many women in bad marriages. If those women have to obey their husbands, they are powerless to say “Hey, this is not okay. I DO NOT want to do this. I will not do this.” What recourse does a wife have if she gets a bad "boss"?

5 replies · active 697 weeks ago

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Deborah · 698 weeks ago

Awesome post!
Thank you,
Deborah

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Danielle · 698 weeks ago

I used to hate the idea of being "submissive," but mostly because I didn't understand it. I thought it meant I would be my husband's 'slave' and do whatever he said. Thankfully I attended a Bible study on Ephesians before we got married and learned what submission truly means. Being submissive is in no way negative as the connotation we have come to believe in our society. God sets up marriage and family in a way that makes it most effective and pleasing to Him. I heard it described like this, and the visual really helped me "get it." The husband is to be in the doorway of the home, where he will protect from all enemies with the full armor of God on, as well as provide. The wife's job is to stay behind him in the home keeping order, raising the children, and supporting him emotionally and through prayer.

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Danielle · 698 weeks ago

Women are NOT equipped to lead the household, so when we try to that's when our marriages struggle and crumble. We are trying to perform a job we are not equipped to do. The same is true when children rule over their parents or when parents put their children before their spouse. That is not the way the Lord intended our families to be set up, and that's why we see so much divorce, rebellion, and chaos in our families.

The Bible tells us not to be unequally yoked, but if for some reason a woman is married to a man who is unwilling to serve in the role of spiritual leader, that is STILL not the woman's place to step up. Her role is still the same; to pray for him, love him, serve him, and show him a Godly example.

1 reply · active 696 weeks ago

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Danielle · 698 weeks ago

I also heard a story once about a woman who prayed for her husband's salvation for ten years, and she (understandably so) was ready to give up. She read some Scriptures about prayer and decided to keep praying. Her husband came to know the Lord the very next year. We never know what the Lord has in store for us and he definitely honors the obedience of a praying wife.

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Danielle · 698 weeks ago

This whole submission thing is such a tough concept because we are taught to be independent, strong-willed woman who are equal in our marriages; however, that is not what the Lord intended for us. I have only been married for a year, but I can tell you that I have definitely been blessed by the abundant life God has for us if we are obedient to His Word. I still struggle with it sometimes, but definitely agree 100% (because it's what the BIBLE tells us!). It's so sad that so many have a misunderstanding about what submission truly means and how it is actually a very positive term.

Sorry for the novel, but I am very passionate about this as well. (It made me split it into parts because my "comment" was so long!)

P.S. Your daughter and her hubby are the most beautiful couple!!!!

1 reply · active 698 weeks ago

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Kindra · 698 weeks ago

In response to Amy: I guess I would say this has to be looked at on the individual level. For instance, as was said earlier, a woman is obligated to obey God first, even over her husband. So, has God called her to maintain a close relationship with her family? Then she must obey God. Has God convicted her in her heart that doing this sexual act may lead her to sin in some other way? (i.e. resentment, lusting after other men, etc.) Then she must obey God and abstain. One would hope that her husband would back her up in these convictions but I know that's not always the case. Anyway, I think only the woman can know for sure, after time spent in the bible and prayer, what God wants her to do. You're right, Amy. God does love women. Loves us enough to show us what we need to do.

13 replies · active 675 weeks ago

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Rightthinker · 698 weeks ago

Amen! I love this post...I am also beginning to see that if I make someone mad in one of my posts, it's because I'm posting biblical truths! While of course my goal is NOT to offend or to divide, it's a natural response when people rebel against the Word of God.

Additionally, until you completely live in submission in ALL realms, not just the modern and comfortable ways, you will not know true peace and happiness..it's an amazing fruit, and one feminists and rebellious Christian women are missing out on.

God Bless!

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cinrice 4p · 698 weeks ago

I am considered a feminist by others and have some feminist ways for sure. With that said, I agree completely with this. And I have found freedom in following God's word in my marriage. It is such a challenge some days and I remind myself that although I disagree I will be blessed if I simply obey.
Thank you.
Cindy

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Becca · 698 weeks ago

Amen!! This is such a sensitive subject but, as I read through the comments, I see God's wisdom and glory. As a young wife, I am so thankful for older women, living out their lives and talking about struggles AND giving a clear path for a better way of life. Thank you!!

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PJB · 698 weeks ago

All of the words in the New Testament are in Greek. All of the words in English Bibles are translation choices. Translation is not an exact science.

I don't understand what's so confusing about that.

Just because English speakers think "submit" means "make the other person into your leader" (because we think in English) doesn't mean that that's the correct interpretation of the word.

-- If the Biblical "submit" means "make the other person your leader" -- don't you see that that means you must read Ephesians 5:21 to mean, "All of you, make all the other people into your leaders"? Don't you see that that doesn't make any sense? Do you really believe that only some Christians should submit when the Bible clearly commands all Christians to submit to one another? Are there any other Scriptural commands that you think only apply to some Christians, and not to others? --

Just because English speakers think "head" means "authority over" (because we think in English) doesn't mean that's the correct interpretation of the word.

-- If the Biblical "head" means "authority over" -- don't you see that that means that you believe that God is "the authority over" Christ? (I Corinthians 11:30) Do you really believe that different levels of authority exist within the Trinity, after Christ's assertion? Because most Christians believe Christ is equal in authority to God. If you hold a 'fringe' position on that theology, you should be clear about it. --

And if God said, "he shall rule over thee" as if a good and desirable state of marriage, why does He state it as one of the terrible painful and wrong results of sin? And why does Jesus say the opposite -- forbidding His followers from 'ruling over' others in any form, "Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all." (Mark 10:42-44)

---

This does not mean that I am in favour of marital conflict. I simply believe that marital harmony is a two-sided relationship. It is important for a woman to do what is beneficial towards her husband, even when it takes self-control and self-sacrifice to do so (a Biblical definition of submission). Putting one's self first (or trying to control or change other people) is not an appropriate way to be a Christian at all, and it is far less appropriate in marriage.

There is simply no need for a battle of wills in marriage at all. Both people can be selfless lovers. It does not take obedience or subordination in order to honour the spouses we love.

2 replies · active 698 weeks ago

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Jocelyn · 698 weeks ago

Great post! And SO true!

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sherry southard · 698 weeks ago

Amen, I must confess that my first marriage was a battle of who could hurt who the worst. We were always at odds. Fortunately but too late, after the divorce I recognized my role in the matter and didn't make the same mistakes in my second marriage. God gave us our men to honor, cherish and obey as we would obey Christ himself. Thank you for sharing this.

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char72 44p · 698 weeks ago

It is hard to disagree with scripture although I know there are many who do. Your comments are very wise in my opinion. I'm glad you shared.
Blessings,
Charlotte

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anita johnson · 698 weeks ago

Your post is well written and the scriptures suppot it. Thanks for being bold enough to write it.

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Ken · 698 weeks ago

I have pondered some of the comments given to this post and I am impressed with so many who "get it" when it comes to God;s design for marriage and His command for "wive be in submission to your husbands." There are few who want to play with the Greek meaning and argue that submission, obey and he will rule over, somehow means mutual submission or worse yet that a wife is to do what she believes is best for her husband and family after careful consideration of her husband's requests or demands.

I think it is important to understand that the word used most in the submit and obey passages is not one of a number of milder Greek words tha could have been used, but the strong word hupotasso:

Hupotasso definition:
to arrange under, to subordinate
to subject, put in subjection
to subject one's self, obey
to submit to one's control
to yield to one's admonition or advice
to obey, be subject
A Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in amilitary fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use,it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assumingresponsibility, and carrying a burden". (Strong's)

The same word is used of our submission to God. I cannot imagine that as some would advocate concerning husbands a wife is to listen to God, respect what He says, but when she feels God does not have it right, she is to choose to do what is in his best interest, and somehow this means to "submit. Is this not precisely why of has appointed the man to be the leader because when "push comes to shove" and disagreements cannot be resolved, God sees harmony in marriage with a wife's submission to be a higher good, even if she is right.

And yes, the model for this is the relationship between Christ and God, I Cor. 11:3, Did not Christ in some way voluntarily give up his equality with God for a moment in time to show us how to submit to God, and how a wife is to submit to her husband? And does not God the Father ultimately place all things under the authority of Christ when His work is complete.

You can point to issues of abuse, and wrong headed husbands, and for those instances each wife must go to the Father and seek His will through the godly counsel of fellow believers, but for the 98% of wives there is no issue. Submission in the Greek means exactly what it means in English. Just pick one of the definitions above or pick all of them... and watch with faithful expectation how God can work on the heart and mind of your man when you get out of the way and allow Him do his powerful work as he observes your chaste and godly behavior.

I am proof that a wife can win her man without a word. It's scary giving up control to a another, but you picked him, so now let God have His way in his life as you allow God to have his way with you. True intimacy blossoms when a man feels that he is the leader and that his wife is willing to envelop her life in his life.

2 replies · active 698 weeks ago

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Brenda Maddox · 698 weeks ago

I love the rest of I Peter that describes that woman with words such inner self, unfading beauty, gentle and quiet spirit which is of great worth in God's sight. I want to of great worth in God's sight not the world's view.

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Joan · 698 weeks ago

Your husband sure is on one, big power trip. Of course it's easy to be married to a "submissive" wife. Being married to someone who feels they have to obey your every whim, demand, and fancy would be wonderful!!! I think a lot of you have Stockholm Syndrome!!! I am married to a truly wonderful man and we have been happily married for over 18 years. Sometimes I get my way and sometimes he gets his way. Give and take. I also believe in God and do not believe that God created woman to be a slave unto her "boss"....I mean husband. This is abusive in my opinion. That is more of a parent/child relationship and wrong. Husbands who demand this of their wives must have very low self esteem to feel the need to belittle their wives in such a way as to always get the last word. I don't understand how some of you can't see this!!!

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