There are some incredibly intelligent women that comment on my blog frequently. I am smart, but I wouldn't say I am highly intelligent! I love learning and sharing, but as you can see, my message is usually pretty simply stated.
Andrea, from The Rightthinker, is one of those incredibly intelligent women. I wanted to share with you one of her comments she left on my blog about submission, because I thought it was SO good!
The most interesting aspect to me, of critics of biblical submission in marriage, is not that it is Scriptural or not {it clearly is, it's rather if a person wishes to accept the Bible as Truth or not} but rather the "but" argument.
Whenever a person begins an argument with "but", it completely disregards what comes before it. For example, "Yes, God commands submission and roles for women and men, but I know an abuser who....." So, the comment there is that the commandment is negated by the sinfulness and disregard of His Word by some people.
Additionally interesting to me, is that women who have humbled their hearts enough to submit to their husbands, are the ones who have the very happiest of marriages. The husbands are the happiest, and supported in order to be the leaders of the home financially and spiritually.
Additionally interesting to me, is that women who have humbled their hearts enough to submit to their husbands, are the ones who have the very happiest of marriages. The husbands are the happiest, and supported in order to be the leaders of the home financially and spiritually.
They don't need to come home and compete with a woman who desires to be the leader. There is little to no fighting..there is complete unity..there is marital solidity in every way. God's plan is always perfect, no matter how much society pretends it's too outdated.
Those who reject God's teachings on submission don't live in a marriage where it takes place, and therefore cannot understand the joy and the growth in Christ that it brings. They hold onto their worldly ways with such ferocity that all we are able to see is their anger and hatred for the very role for which they were so beautifully created.
Ladies, there is joy in laying down the feminist myth in pursuit of obedience to God's Will. His ways are better than our own. You can fool yourself about the reasons you don't wish to comply, but don't fool yourself that it's God's Will.
People think that if they get to do things their own way, then they will be free. No, true freedom comes from doing things God's way. The TRUTH absolutely sets you free.
Those who reject God's teachings on submission don't live in a marriage where it takes place, and therefore cannot understand the joy and the growth in Christ that it brings. They hold onto their worldly ways with such ferocity that all we are able to see is their anger and hatred for the very role for which they were so beautifully created.
Ladies, there is joy in laying down the feminist myth in pursuit of obedience to God's Will. His ways are better than our own. You can fool yourself about the reasons you don't wish to comply, but don't fool yourself that it's God's Will.
People think that if they get to do things their own way, then they will be free. No, true freedom comes from doing things God's way. The TRUTH absolutely sets you free.
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
Ephesians 5:22,23
Logging you in...
Tiffany · 683 weeks ago
Jennifer · 683 weeks ago
Glenys Hicks · 683 weeks ago
Kenya G. Johnson · 683 weeks ago
Nicole · 683 weeks ago
SAH Farmer Mom · 683 weeks ago
PJB · 683 weeks ago
So, it confuses me when people write as if "be submissive" for women means "let the man be the leader" -- a conclusion which your intelligent friend has put forward in her contribution. Do you ever wonder why that is? Why a calling/command that rests on the whole Christian community is understood to mean highly distinctive things just by talking about different genders?
The Bible doesn't say "men are the leaders in marriage" in so-many-words -- so to simply assume the passage you quoted is talking about leadership is jumping to conclusions. It's not like the Apostles didn't know the word 'leadership' if that's what they wanted to be talking about.
Just to affirm -- I'm not against submission. Putting others first, above yourself, yielding yourself for them, and finding comfort and safety under the ministry of another person is a beautiful thing which does bring freedom and happiness. These things are submissive. My only nit-pick is that neither a woman nor a man needs to be in a leader-follower relationship in order to be deeply submitting themself to the other person in marriage.
Linda · 683 weeks ago
"Those who reject God's teachings on submission don't live in a marriage where it takes place, and therefore cannot understand the joy and the growth in Christ that it brings"... mind blowing!!!
Truth is our husbands are human beings, imperfect, and sinful; and we are always going to find that "but" for not submitting. However, we forget we are as imperfect and sinful too. Plus we are not better suited or spiritually supported to take such a role; thus, taking it up is actually worse.
Keep reminding us, Lori. We wanna strive to be godly wives! Thank you!
Lori Alexander 122p · 683 weeks ago
"That they may teach the young women to be...obedient to their own husbands."
Titus 2:4,5
"The head of the woman is the man." I Cor. 11:3
"the wife see that she reverence her husband." Eph. 5:33
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord." Col. 3:18
"Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands, that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives." I Peter 3:1
"And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him." Genesis 2:18
Along with the verse I stated in the post, God is very clear about this important issue.
Joluise · 683 weeks ago
I'm T · 683 weeks ago
Perhaps submission gets such a bad rap because it is assumed that a woman never gets a final say on anything? I really cannot imagine that a leader-of-the-household husband would never say "I trust your choice" or something of the like to his wife.
I think that it is necessary for couples in long-term relationships to consult one another about decisions both big and small. Otherwise I think a couple starts acting more like roommates than a pair.
Personally, I think the "hang ups" on submission stem from (what I'll consider) a minor issue: the fact that a man is head of household and a woman subservient to him. I really don't see how that is the main point of submission. Isn't it instead about ensuring that a couple works as a united pair, rather than with the same independence that they had before the were joined?
Cynthia Swenson · 683 weeks ago
Lori Alexander 122p · 683 weeks ago
The bottom line is that you disagree with the 6-8 clear teachings of the scriptures that the man is to lead his home and wives are to be submissive. That's OK to disagree, but it is not OK to claim one verse related to mutual submission and wipe out the other eight that are written in a marital context.
To wipe out submission of a woman to man is to wipe out the clear teaching of scripture and to wipe out any passage related to submission or at least water it down significantly. Are we no longer to obey “hupotasso” our church elders?
For some of us we take the whole of scripture at face value and weigh the passages. We do not give much weight to baptism for the dead and other things mentioned one time, but we do give heavy weight to passages that clearly teach the same thing 6-8 times. It is an excellent hermeneutical principle held by all legitimate interpreters. It is the cults who cling to one verse in scripture without giving the full Word of God its proper say, or those who simply do not want to adhere to things clearly taught in the scriptures. They always find an excuse…. one verse cannot be left to wipe out eight others.
The verses themselves to wives commanding submission become meaningless if submission in a marriage was to be completely mutual. Why write the verse at all if it was not intended for wives to have a greater submission to the husband than a husband to a wife???
Ken · 682 weeks ago
It seems you will also need to assume the same is true then of church leaders needing to submit to the members. That they are not to exercise leadership, but rather live in a world of always "submitting to one another?"
I Tim 3:4 clearly teaches that a man aspiring to the office of elder must "manage, or rule" his family well. So the most spiritual men must lead their families forward, but somehow the husband is not necessarily to be the leader of his home?
Yes, you will point out that the verse relates in context to ruling his children, not necessarily his wife, and this is where we will once again have to respectfully disagree. Your need to exclude male leadership in a marriage is banking on a remote interpretation that takes each related verse and somehow finds its flaw. You have found the trees and missed the clear forest on the issue of submission and husband leadership by proposing interpretations of the many verses related to submission which are unlikely. Not impossible, just highly unlikely.
When taken together as a whole, the verses on submission along with the verse on male elder leadership of the church... and the home, there is no strong footing for believing that somehow mutual submission is intended in the marriage setting.
Go to practical application and how does this work out? Husband makes a decision, wife says "no", husband submits?
Husband makes a decision, wife says "no" and they argue until the better Christian submits to the spouse who will not submit?
Husband makes a decision and wife says "no" and then postpone the decision indefinitely until one finally submits to another?
Actually these first three scenarios was what our marriage was like for many years, and now it is more like the following:
Husband makes a decision, wife says "yes, but are you sure honey,” and husband rethinks this decision not with submission to wife in mind, but with her best interest in mind. That is love, which is the highest form of leadership in the kingdom, and nothing to feel. Unfortunately, many wives will never experience the loving leadership a husband can give them out of fear.
This is why Lori's message is so powerful, because it is right on Biblical, yet so counter-culture and counter-nature for most wives. One cannot step out and receive the blessings of God unless they first are willing to step out in faith and believe God's promises. But for the few marriages that achieve God's desire and design, those marriages are truly blessed with a husband's loving leadership and a wives loving submission.
Just as Christ leads us, the husbands leadership and strength is rarely see on the outside, but it is felt by both spouses on the inside of the marriage and it results in an intimacy on a much higher plane. God's ways are not man's ways, but they result in blessings far beyond what we could have ever imagined.