Wednesday, December 17, 2014

Was This Abusive Towards Me?


She thinks Ken is abusive towards me since he likes me to stand in church when we're singing! She was responding to the following comment on this post ~

Ken loves to stand up during worship at church while we're singing. I prefer to sit down since my lower back and feet hurt if I stand too long. On Sunday, he stood and I stood up beside him and asked him if he prefers I stand with him. He smiled and said, "Yes." I then whispered why I don't like to stand long. Later, we talked about it and he told me that I was welcome to sit down after a minute or two if I start to hurt at all, but he does like me standing beside him. So I decided I will stand now whenever he stands. My desire is to be a submissive wife and even if I'm not perfect yet, I am a lot better than I use to be!

Here is the woman's comment concerning Ken's supposed "abuse" of me ~

There is such a thing as 'just saying no' to such a ridiculous request to make you stand until you are in pain. Yes---it is ridiculous. If MY husband had made that request I would have questioned if he really loved me!! That is abuse!! In a marriage, respect for both partners is a must. Sounds like your husband does not respect you or your pain or he would not ask you to do something that would make you hurt when you could simply sit all the time. At MY CHRISTIAN church, if one of the marriage partners has health issues, he or she remains seated the whole service---we would not THINK or even consider asking that partner to stand just because WE wanted them to stand. Good heavens!

Let's say she is right, (although she is dead wrong!), and I take her advice. I refuse to obey my husband since it is uncomfortable for me to stand many minutes and I'm now angry with him because he's abusive, doesn't respect me AND probably doesn't love me according to her! Do you think this advice will strengthen our marriage or harm it? Do you think this is good advice to give to another Christian woman when you disagree with something her husband is asking her do? How does this uplift her or edify her marriage? All this kind of counsel does is damage the marriage as it serves no healthy purpose but to cause further upset and division. Also, the word abuse here is WAY over used when there is NO abuse at all.

My friend, Sandy, just called me and discussed the same post with me about the woman who refused to obey her husband and sit down when he asked her. She said it all comes down to original sin. We don't like anyone telling us what to do. We want to do what we want to do, period. We want to go our own way and not listen to the commands of the Lord. Ironically, Ken never even told me to stand with him. I was the one to ask him if he liked it. But when I ask, he says Yes and I want to please him; the world of abuse arrives at our doorstep. Just from a simple "Yes."

Let me make this very clear. This is NOT abusive! Ken has never abused me and has never come close to doing anything that is abusive. He never swears, rarely if ever raises his voice, and never has done anything where I might fear him. He is an honorable man of God who I trust completely to look out for my best interests over his own. His daily sacrifices for me are evident everywhere, so to sacrifice a little to please him seems only right. 

Therefore, women, whenever you are mentoring other women about their marriage, DO NOT attack their husbands and put them down, especially when you have only one side of the story. It does nothing to improve the marriage and only makes it worse since the wives can do nothing to change their husband's behavior. Most definitely never throw around the inflammatory word "abuse" unless it is truly abusive. No counselor throws fuel on a fire, but instead tries to move the spouse they are working with to a point where they can positively impact the marriage. 

You will never change a husband or marriage by inserting your sense of right and wrong into another person's marriage. If I saw nothing wrong with Ken answering me truthfully, why would anyone try to make him into an abusive husband in my mind? Let's get something straight about what God demands of a believer; if we want to please God by being godly wives we must be willing to sacrifice, especially in the little things of life to please our husbands. After all, is this not what we hope and pray our husbands are doing for us each and every day? From Jesus' own words ~

If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

So next time you hear a wife say something you think is unfair or unkind about her husband, work on her attitudes and behaviors according to the Word of God and what it teaches. Help her to focus on her husband's good qualities and the sacrifices he makes for her, not on his faults. Then encourage her with I Peter 3:1 ~ Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives {I Peter 3:1}.

Comments (57)

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I agree about the dangers of giving advice using potentially inflammatory language, based on a one-sided account and limited personal contact.

This would be true for those mentoring either a wife or a husband.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
Enjoyed this post. As I work on becoming a more submissive wife I avoid negative people and feminists comments. Having entitlement does NOT bring any joy to the marriage for either person! The hardest part for me is having a bitter attitude. I now pray everyday that God will help me, show me and give me the grace to be the wife He wants me to be. I also pray that God will help me be attracted to and desire my husband. It's incredible how simply praying helps me overcome my fleshly thoughts and desires.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
A lot of women don't want to be submissive. They don't like anyone else being submissive. Ken isn't "forcing" you to stand even though you are in pain. You are doing something small in order to please him. That's no where near abuse. You are making the decision to be submissive to your husband. If it was an employer/employee situation I have a feeling you wouldn't be getting these kinds of comments.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
Lady Virtue's avatar

Lady Virtue · 536 weeks ago

It's a sinful, mixed up world we live in (reminds me of Isaiah 5:20) when a wife simply wants to please her husband and submitting to his wishes is deemed "abuse." The word "abuse" has been abused by overuse! I guess wives who seek to please their husbands would also be considered doormats, according to this woman. I feel for her husband; he's probably got both his hands full!

It seems like it's perfectly OK for wives to have unrealistic expectations and a sense of entitlement, but God forbid that a husband would express his preferences and desires. Sad indeed.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
It is certainly not abuse, but it seems inconsiderate to ask someone in a great deal of physical pain to stand. And no, I'm not saying you should refuse. But if to were me, I would kindly ask him to reconsider his request.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
This is not abuse. Lori asked Ken a question. Ken told her his opinion. Lori, who is a kind and loving wife, explained to her husband why she can't stand for long periods of time. Ken, who is a loving husband, listened. They spoke more about the subject later during tusband, listened. They spoke more about the subject later during the day. I'm going to assume that during that conversation, Ken told Lori how much he loves having his wonderful wife, standing by his side while worshipping the Lord. Ken seems to be a thoughtful, caring husband, expressed his concerns over her standing too long and let her know that if she tires or is in pain she must sit down right away. But it makes him happy that she would want to stand next to him. Lori made a decision to stand next him. She expressed her thoughts and concerns. She had a spouse who listened to her. SHE made a decision. Ken did not force her.
Yes, I know I am assuming alot. But how can anyone read your blog and all the comments and not see how devoted Ken and Lori are to each other and how they would never want to cause unnecessary harm to their spouse.he day. I'm going to assume that during that conversation, Ken told Lori how much he loves having his wonderful wife, standing by his side while worshipping the Lord. Ken seems to be a thoughtful, caring husband, expressed his concerns over her standing too long and let her know that if she tires or is in pain she must sit down right away. But it makes him happy that she would want to stand next to him. Lori made a decision to stand next him. She expressed her thoughts and concerns. She had a spouse who listened to her. SHE made a decision. Ken did not force her.
Yes, I know I am assuming alot. But how can anyone read your blog and all the comments and not see how devoted Ken and Lori are to each other and how they would never want to cause unnecessary harm to their spouse.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
Great post. We must love and obey our husbands as unto the Lord. Great encouragement:)
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
I think you were being a kind, thoughtful, and considerate wife by asking him if he likes you to stand with him. And when he said yes, he does prefer you to stand, you stood with him even though it may hurt a bit. Of course your husband likes it when you stand up with him. You're his wife and he loves you. But I am sure that he would prefer you to sit if you are in a considerable amount of pain.
3 replies · active 536 weeks ago
I think everyone is overlooking the part where Ken said that as soon as Lori began to feel pain she should sit. He was only asking her to share in standing during worship with him when it didn't hurt her to do so. It's unbelievable how everyone twists a beautiful relationship into something ugly!
2 replies · active 536 weeks ago
Furthermore, where on earth have we as the church come up with this idea that we should always be comfortable! That is NOWHERE in the Bible. Nowhere. Putting ourselves in a situation that is uncomfortable only confirms our willingness to sacrifice self and show our love, respect and honor to the one we are made uncomfortable for. Be that our husband, or our God. And in following the earthly hierarchy (of any authority), we are honoring God as well, who placed the hierarchy, beginning at Creation. We are never promised we'd always be comfortable, or that we'd never be sinned against. Especially when it's not really being sinned against, but only our own pride and not wanting to answer to anyone but ourselves. That's called idolatry - of OURSELVES! This casual throwing around of "abuse", Bleck - makes me sick.
4 replies · active 536 weeks ago
I agree that many will not understand & hate submission & falsely accuse, but the Lord calls us to love kindness, not take offense, & give gentle answers. I know it's easy to get angry, even just a little, but "man's anger does not accomplish the righteousness of God". We need to "love our enemies" girls! Love & prayers, in Jesus, Cynthia
2 replies · active 536 weeks ago
Lori could ask me if it is OK to sit IF she starts feeling any pain and I would be happy to have her sit. The irony of this story is that I never asked Lori to do anything, yet some consider my actions abusive? The irrationality of some shows certain biases that are seemingly insurmountable no matter what the facts or logic.

The last few days Lori has continued to ask me to do things for her because of her neck and strength issues. It has been quite painful at times to oblige as I have a sprained wrist. My wrist hurt all the way from the curb to the home as I pulled the trash bins in. Is this an inconsiderate and abusive wife, knowing that I am injured yet still anticipating the trash cans will be brought in. I mean I was in real pain, not just some standing discomfort. Or is this just an illustration of pain that we all go through to sacrifice a bit of ourselves for our spouse and never say a word about it?

The whole country seems to have gotten ridiculous when it comes to pain and serving others. The post today illustrates this clearly. To throw out the "abuse" word when a husband gives his preferences when asked is some reaction to a hidden bias which does not in any way match up with the life and words of our Lord Jesus who calls us to sacrifice for Him and for others. Lori is under no command or obligation to stand at church, or stand past a point into pain, but I always appreciate it when she shows me a desire to please me.

This gets to the heart of submission, that it takes no commands from a husband to lead or for a wife to be submissive. Both are in tune with the other spouses preferences and try to meet them because this is what Jesus would do and asks us to do for others, not just our spouse. But often husbands come last for many wives, after kids, friends, parents, Internet, etc.Why? Because of a bias to be served and pleased by a husband instead of a desire to serve and please him.
2 replies · active 536 weeks ago
The way this simple act of love in your marraige got twisted into a so-called abusive situation seems so very silly. Not for a second did I think that. What I was thinking is what a great example you both are and it made me question myself to see how I could better serve my own husband. I hope and pray that you never get discouraged enough to stop mentoring, because things you've written about has helped me in my marraige a lot!
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
thejoyfilledwife's avatar

thejoyfilledwife · 536 weeks ago

If someone put out a story of a mother in a great deal of physical pain who set her discomfort aside to be there to support her child at an audition or competition, everyone would be crowing about her selflessness and love toward her child. When it comes to husbands, though, there always seems to be a double standard.

Life is full of painful experiences that are worthwhile. Look at childbirth, for instance. The pain of labor is the greatest most women experience in their lifetime and it's a selfless occasion that is celebrated with great joy. Look at what our Savior did on the cross for us. No pain is greater than the one he endured on our behalf. We can easily make being pain free an idol if we constantly avoid it, even to our relational detriment.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
I posted your comment again, thejoyfilledwife, because it made me think of something. I was in horrible pain for both Steven and Cassi's wedding and didn't even think I would make it. I did end up going besides being in pain. They both really wanted me at their wedding. No one would EVER think they were abusive towards me in this situation. It is absolutely absurd the lengths that women will go to in order to try to do away with submission.
2 replies · active 536 weeks ago
My sister does not understand me being a submissive wife. As a result, she chose not to come to my wedding. She chose to "make a stand" against it. She feels I chose my husband over her. Yes, I did and will continue to do so. My heart hurts and I have tried to repair the situation but she will not back down. I will continue to live my life as a submissive, obedient wife who is pleasing in God's eyes and is a help meet to my husband.
5 replies · active 536 weeks ago
Some people just like to plain old nit pick. You said Ken PREFERS that you stand. He never demands that you stand. Even if you didn't have health problems the word 'Prefer' indicates that it is optional, but it really would make him happy if you made the effort. The word 'demand' would indicate that health problems or not, he expects you to stand when he stands. By your post you indicated that he has NEVER DEMANDED this of you. And as far as I'm concerned, if it were me I would lovingly and gently explain my reasons for not standing. And if it's ok with him, I would rather not stand. I don't think that would be disobedient, as it was never a demand. It was a preference. But if my husband still really wanted me to stand I would try and make the effort.

The ladies response seemed to ooze with pride. And it indicates an unsubmissive attitude. The type of women I avoid and I know many men would avoid. It makes me want to write a sympathy card for her poor husband. Ugh! #facepalm
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
I wrote a short post this week about making Harissa for my husband as he loves it. When I make it, it makes my eyes hurt, I start to cough and even though I wear gloves I can still taste chilli on my hands. And, I don't even eat Harissa. I make it because my husband enjoys eating my homemade variety. As our husband's helpmate, we should all be doing things to make our husbands happy, even if it means a little discomfort.
1 reply · active 536 weeks ago
Interesting reading all of these comments. Every husband is different too and we have to realize what pleases our husbands. Truthfully, I think if I asked my husband if he would like to have me stand beside him; he would say, "Whatever works for you." We need to look carefully to find our husband's love language and listen to what they prefer. Some men love passive, agreeable women while other men prefer women who challenge and have some feistiness. In every situation, we put the other above ourselves.
3 replies · active 536 weeks ago
The commenter had said: If MY husband had made that request I would have questioned if he really loved me!!

Why must it get to such an extreme about questioning love?

I am sure that Lori and Ken have a good communication style and Ken would certainly never want to cause her pain. He knows the journey Lori has had with regard to health matters.

I am sure that Lori and Ken would have discussed this outside of church if Lori felt that standing was beyond her comfort level.

The commenter may have purposely chosen an opposing, negative view not to attack but because she may well not understand submission. The commenter could have just as easily shown concern for Lori in a caring way.
OK, here is a novel idea. Lori stands until she can bear it no more, then she sits. When she sits, Ken realizes she is at her limit, and to help her feel close to him and unawkward, he sits down with her, holds her hand, and they continue to worship together. Beautiful solution, she doesn't have to feel she is dishonoring him and he makes her feel cared for, and The Lord is still praised.
Nope, not abusive. Two reasons: 1. Ken did not request this. You asked him for his feelings, and he answered. 2. He specifically said *NOT* if you are in pain -- not 'even when you are in pain.'
1 reply · active 535 weeks ago

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