Always Learning: Problems With Manipulation Techniques

Thursday, July 25, 2013

Problems With Manipulation Techniques

The problem with most marriage books and blogs is they often promote manipulation techniques to get a husband to do what a wife wants instead of teaching a wife to have a gentle and quiet spirit that loves, serves, and is submissive to her husband.

I recently posted the above paragraph on facebook and told Ken. He said that a wife should be able to make a request to her husband once a month if she wants something from him. I told him my life has been SO much better since I didn't expect anything from him.

I have learned to just focus upon becoming the woman God wants me to be, not the man God wants Ken to be. I have learned not to put any expectations upon Ken about anything. I have learned to just let him be and allow the Lord to change him.

I use to want Ken to adore me and say nice things to me. I use to want many things from him and I was miserable. Now that I just focus upon serving him and trying to please him and just think of ways to change myself, we are both much happier.

I read those blogs that tell you how you can get your husband to be more romantic or help around the house more or treat you better, etc. There's always some type of formula {manipulation} in order to get what you want from your man.

I prefer to just teach the ways of God and what He expects from godly women. He wants us to know Him and let His Word dwell in us richly. He wants us to deny ourselves and think more highly of others than ourselves. He wants us to be servants and be willing to serve others.

Taking our eyes off of our husbands and what we want from them is a very good thing. Life becomes so much simpler. Keep your eyes upon Jesus. Draw closer to Him and allow Him to make you into the woman He desires. Then watch how you will reap what you sow.

Let it be the hidden person of the heart,
with the imperishable quality
of a gentle and quiet spirit,
which is precious in the sight of God.
I Peter 3:4

***I am not saying you shouldn't ever let your desires be known to your husband but I bet most of them know all of your desires after several years of marriage!

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sonia · 609 weeks ago

Wonderful!!!!! Blog

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Deb · 609 weeks ago

The way we approach things can make a difference in relationships, but manipulation never works in the long run and can really "blow up in our faces" sometimes. Thanks for this post. I am working on the very thing you write about.

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Courtney · 609 weeks ago

I'm really curious about this once a month thing. Can you elaborate on what he means a little? What would an example of a request be? In contrast, how often should a husband be able to make a request to his wife?

10 replies · active 609 weeks ago

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Lori Alexander 122p · 609 weeks ago

Say a wife really would like her husband to hang up his towel after taking a shower so she tells him once. He keeps forgetting and leaving it on the floor so Ken thinks she should remind him once a month. I would encourage her to be a servant and just hang up the towel for him and forget about it. Don't let small things like this hurt your marriage. I had a friend whose husband was always late for dinner. He was very social and loved talking to people. For 30 years she has nagged, pouted and been angry with him about it. She needed to give it up long ago and just heat up his dinner when he came home and give him a big hug and kiss telling him how happy she was to see him.

Since the husband is the head of the home, he can make as many requests as he likes. He's the boss and the boss gets to run the show. Thankfully, most of us are married to very benevolent bosses and want their wives' opinions. But I know what Ken likes now and I try very hard to accommodate him in all of his wishes.

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Courtney · 609 weeks ago

This might sound really weird, but I would so love to be a fly on the wall in a home with this philosophy! It's just hard for me to imagine how marriages like these work on a day-to-day basis, since the idea is so foreign to me. I don't doubt that they are happy, I'm just curious what the interactions are like.

And one more question, if you don't mind: what is an example of what you consider a manipulation technique?

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Lori Alexander 122p · 609 weeks ago

Ken and I just act like a happy couple who respects and loves each other. When we disagree on something, I simply stop talking and let him be right. I have learned I don't need to be right all the time and I don't need to get my way to be happy. I am much happier having a happy, peaceful home.

A manipulation technique would be pouting, crying, throwing a tantrum, giving a cold shoulder, refusing sex, etc. Women are very good at most of these to get their way. I know I sure was!

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Courtney · 609 weeks ago

Do you think it's possible to be unsubmissive without being manipulative, disrespectful, or mean? I agree that manipulation and disrespect are going to hurt a relationship, but personally, I don't think I would like it if my spouse let me be right all the time. I appreciate having him call me out when I'm being unreasonable or tell me when I'm wrong. I keep going back to your post "For Husbands Who Don't Want Submissive Wives" and I'm wondering, if the husband wants his wife to tell him when she thinks he's wrong or to "debate" an issue with him to help him see another side to it, what would you council her to do? Or if it pleases him to have her treat him as an equal instead of the boss, what should she do?

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Lori Alexander 122p · 609 weeks ago

I definitely discuss things with Ken. He wants my opinions. However, I have learned when discussion turns to arguing so now I intentionally stop discussing if I feel it is during into an argument...our voices get stronger, our emotions are getting involved, I want to be right!, etc. It took awhile to figure it out, but thankfully, I have now and we both like it.

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Lucy · 609 weeks ago

I have great respect for him. I admire him. I plan things to bless him. We pray together. He says we are a team. I get the vibes from so many Christian women that the husband is up on a pedestal and the wives are there to just jump and run and try to please, meeting every demand and never making a peep. Oh, what a wrong vision. My dh says we walk together. I do defer to him on decisions, but we are always in harmony. He asks what I think.

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Lucy · 609 weeks ago

Truthfully, where does the idea come from for a wife to be "allowed" to make a request once per month? A marriage is not parent/child or boss/employee. It's deeper and very special. I do not nag my dh. I do not manipulate my dh. We discuss things like adults.

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Lucy · 609 weeks ago

I enjoy reading your blog and you definitely have wisdom from God. Submission is an issue that is tender and many times misunderstood. I read my dh the comments about a wife being "allowed" to make a request once per month, or that the husband is the boss, and he laughed. He said a marriage is not a parent/child relationship and it is not a business where there is a boss. There is a difference between the head of the home and the boss where someone just calls all the shots while others jump through hoops. My dh says he loves me as Christ loves the church. How did Christ love the church? He gave Himself up. A husband protects. A husband sets standards in a home. A husband is loving and very tender, yet strong and hard working. My dh says that I can request anything from him anytime. He loves to know what is on my mind. I do not believe in nagging. My dh does not nag me, and I do not nag him. We pray together on issues.

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Lori Alexander 122p · 609 weeks ago

You are married to a very good husband, Lucy, and so am I but there are many women out there who don't feel like their husbands love them as Christ loves the church. They don't feel like their husbands protect them, are loving, tender, and hard working. There are very many women unhappy in their marriage. I am teaching women to love their husbands and the Bible says wives may win their husbands without a word. Many husbands walk in disobedience to God but as women become like Jesus and loves their husbands like Jesus would, they draw their husbands to them.

Of course everyone wants a marriage like you have but most don't. I encourage women to not place expectations on their husbands or they may destroy their marriage. They have no ability to change their husbands, only themselves.

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Lucy · 609 weeks ago

Lori, that is a great piece of advice and I receive that wisdom. I appreciate you sharing with me. It truly grieves me to see so many depressed Christian women. It really does. Women who live almost in an oppressed manner. I do know of marriages like you mention. I am grateful for my dh and will show and tell him that again today. I will also pray for the women who need God's wisdom, grace, help, and strength.

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Cynthia · 609 weeks ago

I agree with you that manipulation is a problem.

Many of your posts focus on submitting in body: following instructions of a husband, not arguing back, doing tasks around the home. To get at the heart of the issue, though, I feel that it is important reverence our husbands in our hearts, minds and souls.

Titus 2:4 says that we are to love our husbands, and to be discreet. Ephesians 5:33 says that we are to show that we reverence/respect our husbands. Our love and respect is to mirror that which is due to the Lord, and in Deuteronomy 6, we are commanded to love the Lord with all of our heart and soul and might.

So, I focus on honoring and respecting and loving my husband, and seeing the aspects of goodness and Godliness within him. To use your towel example, it is possible for a wife to be silently resentful even while doing a task like that, and that is not what the Bible instructs. Instead, I've approached that issue by saying, "my husband worked so hard today, running around to save lives and heal people with care and compassion. He agreed to see someone in the hospital who needed him at the last moment, so he didn't have a chance to freshen up earlier. He went directly from the hospital to pick up our son and coach his soccer team, despite the mud and sticky weather. He certainly needed a shower when he got home, and he was in a hurray because he was getting ready for our date night. When I look at what a hard-working, loving, caring and dedicated man he is, hanging up a towel for him is a very small matter."

At the same time, I am direct, while being discreet, if there is a serious issue that needs his attention. I may not complain daily about water on the bathroom floor, but if the ceiling leaks as a result, he needs to know about it now - not in a month. Similarly, since I know that he has a good and Godly heart, I know that he would be grieved if his behavior caused anyone pain. If during a more of extreme stress, he happens to do something without realizing how it bothered somebody else, I will pull him aside and gently but directly let him know, so that he has an opportunity to correct the problem.

My husband can trust me to do this, and he can also trust that if I do not say anything and agree with a course of action, that I am truly okay with whatever he is doing, and will not have any hate or resentment in my heart, or feel the need to pray for the Lord to change him.

I am concerned that some Christian women's blogs can appear to promote Titus 2 and Ephesians 5 values, but really serve as a vehicle to disrespect or manipulate a husband through passive-aggressive means. What impression would an outside person get of our husband from reading our blog? Do we sing his praises and stress his virtues, or talk only of how we submit to him despite his many failings? Do we mention his failings and our disappointments in public, while then saying that we learned to submit anyway and either suffer for the Lord or let the Lord change him? If so, we may be telling ourselves that we are servants of the Lord and just trying to spread the word about submission to other women, but in reality we may be disrespecting our husbands and subjecting them to public shaming. Writing about them in this way, we may be painting ourselves as a martyr in order to be prideful, or taking passive-aggressive digs at a husband in the hopes of manipulating him to change.

1 reply · active 609 weeks ago

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Lori Alexander 122p · 609 weeks ago

Great points, Cynthia. Thank you.

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Mbb · 609 weeks ago

Came here today looking for answers! Your testimony of how you and Ken live day to day is very informative. Me and my husband had a fight today. It was just bad (I pinched him and he pushed me). Everything you said would be great if we just argued, but we have on occasion gotten physical. My two daughters were in the car, we were going to a movie night at church. I have felt neglected lately and he wanted to go to his friends' which earlier in the week i said that was fine but for some reason now i wanted him with us and couldn't communicate that. We were arguing a bit about that. thats why i pinched him, he was blocking my door and as always instead of discussing things after girls are in bed, he WANTS to have a discussion right then and there. I refused (to try to wait til we calmed down) and he got louder and i asked him to move and he wouldn't so i pinched him. I think hormones played into my not submitting. He pushed me. As far as i know they didn't see anything. I am just sad and at my wits end. I submit and follow this blog. I pray. I think about leaving him. But I just don't know the right thing to do. I have just made a terrible mess of my girls' lives. I see no future for me and my husband other than a long life of me living in fear of not saying the right thing or submitting every time. His anger has gotten better since i have submitted. I can mess up a little more. He just has next to no patience for me or anyone. Im just over all of this.

Its hard for me to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I grew up thinking women ruled the roost and the world. I feel embarrassed and weak when i submit. I wish the shame would go away. I know it works and its what God desires for me. But I can't accept His desire for my kids to see this arguing. Why did it happen? Will it ever stop and I can remain married? Or do I move on? We have gotten better but its still a roller coaster, just fewer hills which is good...i guess.

Sorry. I am very upset and confused.

2 replies · active 608 weeks ago

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Lori Alexander 122p · 609 weeks ago

The greatest gift you can give your girls is to stay married to their father. Yes, you can learn not to argue. It may take time but practice makes perfect. Submission doesn't come easily either, especially if you were never modeled or taught it. Don't even think about divorce. It is not an option. What God has joined together, let no man put asunder. Allow God to love your husband through you, instead of trying to love him with your imperfect love. Pray for him daily. This is a spiritual battle and satan would love to destroy your marriage. Don't let him. Fight for your marriage. Seek the Lord. Be in His Word daily. Get your strength from Him. You can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. Never give up. God will get you through and when you are still married in your old age, you will be so happy you fought for your marriage and God will be glorified.

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Cynthia · 608 weeks ago

I would urge you and your husband to make it an immediate priority to seek out the following counselling:

1. Anger management counselling geared to those expressing anger physically in relationships. I've heard some very positive things from some people who have taken it. While not everyone will put in the effort to benefit from it, I've heard some very positive and encouraging things from some people who have attended, and who had learned to walk in peace with their families as a result. These classes are generally offered for men and women separately.

2. Marriage counselling and communication workshop: After anger management counselling, you and your husband will still need to learn how to improve your communication with each other, and work together to build a strong marriage.

It is possible to find qualified counselors who also have a pastoral background, and can bring God's truth out in their counseling.

If you do not believe that you have the time or money for this, ask yourself:

1. If a future fight also got physical and police were called, would we have the time or money to deal with an arrest and criminal charges?

2. If things do not improve, how will your sweet children be affected? Will they start to withdraw, and will you and/or your husband lose their hearts?

3. Most seriously, is there any chance that if problems were not corrected, you or your husband could lose control and cause some real physical damage during a fight?

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Mbb · 609 weeks ago

Thank you. I will pray more. It's hard to find time. He is next to no help with the kids since he has taken on this extra project outside of work. It is literally killing our marriage. We are both completely exhausted by it. Yet it seems to go on forever. It was supposed to be finished in July but now it is looking like August. I want him to never do this again. I knew it would be touh. I shouldve said he couldnt do it. But then again i had no choice because he probably wouldve been angry i said no or elsewouldve done it anyway. I will just oray. I feel like God is not there lately. Guess that is because I have left, not Him. Thank you!

1 reply · active 609 weeks ago

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Emily · 609 weeks ago

Pray for wisdom- minute to minute, if necessary. God will show you how to respond
to your husband. Fight for your marriage! God will be glorified.

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Mann · 608 weeks ago

Thank you ladies who responded to my post. Emily, I just now read this but I have been doing exactly as you suggested anyway. I am in constant prayer. I have a "set" prayer I received from another wise woman online. I pray it every night and throughout the day. We have done lots of counseling in the past. I only have God to turn to because nothing has worked as successfully this far. I am no fool. I know what is too much. Yes it is all foolish sounding to those who married wisely. I knew the moment we talked about marriage it wasn't wise to marry him. But I wanted to and that's all that mattered at the time. I feel God wants me to stay. It has been a totally sanctifying journey. Tonight I had to pray during dinner to myself to fix a certain anxiety I was having. My husband does not believe he has anger issues. His dad died when he was 12 (the same year my mom died but I was 5) and he and I both have a lot of anger that stems just from that. I would love to be in counseling for a long time but honestly I just don't have time. I go whenever I feel completely overwhelmed but he doesn't want to go. Prayer is all I know to do. I am doing it. My God is a just God and he also gave me wits of my own to decipher what is too much. But yes in the heat of the moment it feels like too much. I will continue to pray as Lori suggests, to love my husband as Christ does and to reveal to me His kind of love.

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Emily · 608 weeks ago

God has helped me through some very difficult times in
my marriage, too. Most times my only support and counsel
came from Lori's posts. At one point, my husband wrote me a
note and said I was like the Biblical Jezebel. That was tough to
take. A good thing that came from it was that when I
asked him to tell me how I was like Jezebel, it helped me to
know specifically what to work on. I began submitting in
everything. I started seeing a positive response in my husband.
It took several months and still our marriage has lots of room for
improvement, but I know that I'm responsible for MY behavior and
ONLY mine. I'm still learning and growing, that's the sanctification
process, but I want to glorify God in my life and marriage. Keep
up the hard work in fighting for your marriage! Don't give in or give up!

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