Saturday, March 14, 2015

Challenging His Authority in Front of the Children


His wife disrespects him OFTEN. She'll even correct him after he's done praying if he's forgotten something and she'll do it in front of the children. If he says something she disagrees with, she'll challenge him, even with swearing, with the children present. "We are members of our church and do both love each other very much. But I have a real struggle when I feel disrespected especially in front of our kids. It shuts me down emotionally and the circle starts again. She'll say when you are ready to lead I'll be patiently waiting in a demeaning tone."

TheJoyFilledWife's shared with him what she thought he should do ~

I just spoke with my husband about your situation and wanted to share with you what he told me he would do if he and I were in the same situation you and your wife are. Keep in mind that my husband is speaking from the perspective of being a born again Christian who is married to a born again Christian. You mentioned that you and your wife were baptized and attend church, but I didn't see you mention that you are both believers. If your wife is using blatant profanity toward you and is not remorseful for her lashing out in anger, perhaps what we are seeing here is a lack of fruit. When there is a lack of fruit, it's usually because a person is not plugged into the vine. If your wife is a true believer and has been born again yet has no remorse, she has a stronghold that will take an act of the Holy Spirit to break. That's no small order, but it can be done as we know that all things are possible with Christ. 

With that said, here was what my husband said he would do ~

As a Christian husband running a Christian household, the chain of command set forth in the Scriptures is what our household will abide by. Period. Is there forgiveness and love for the rebellious? Yes, always. But I would be guilty of no lesser sin if I opt not to obey the Word of God regarding my position of authority because of fear {also a sin} of my rebellious wife. As the head of the household, I am accountable before God for any and all sin I allow to go unchecked {including and ESPECIALLY my own}. I am to lead by example. 

The Bible gives the household and marital authority to the husband, regardless of whether he is doing an adequate job in his role. His authority is not dependent upon whether or not his family respects him {although, of course, they should and he should be respectable in his actions}. The authority he has been given does not begin and end with him, it begins and ends with a Holy God who put a Holy order to things so that we would not have a world full of chaos. Since the Lord God decreed and commanded the authority, it is not optional. It is a command. My language may be strong, but Scripture is stronger. God is not wishy-washy or concerned with whether or not His commands are popular. 

If my wife has a suggestion about additional topics that need to be covered in prayer, she can suggest them respectfully beforehand or pull me aside and share them respectfully afterward. When she communicates to me, especially in front of the children, it will need to be in a respectful manner or the communication will be cut short and I will excuse us from earshot of the children and continue the conversation privately. If anger, disrespect, profanity, or any kind of words or behavior unbecoming to a Christian should come from her, I will stop her short and firmly tell her that, in our Christian household, disrespect will not be tolerated and, if she has something she wants me to hear her on, I will lend her a listening ear and give her the floor so long as she communicates in a respectful way that is becoming of a Believer. If she refuses to abide by those Christian principles, her communication will be cut short and she can remain in the room to complete the conversation with herself. If she lashes out at me and chooses to disrespect me and the Lord in front of our children, she will be asked to leave the home for an hour or so to cool off and spend some time in prayer regarding the state of her heart. If she refuses to leave, I will take any age-appropriate children with me to spend time out of the house for a bit so she can get her heart right before we return. 

If she continues this behavior, each time she will find herself alone in the room or the house following each incident. I will not engage her in conversation or put up with her disrespect. Her words will fall on deaf ears and she will not be heard. Once she is ready to approach me with respect and offer a sincere apology and heart change over her sin, she will have a husband who is ready and willing to hear her heart and to take into consideration anything she communicates respectfully. 

I know that it is my job to lead by example and I will continue to work on that daily so that I may love her like Christ. I will continue to tell her each day that I love her and my prayers for her will be faithful. Sometimes leaders have the difficult job of leading difficult people. Regardless of their level of difficulty, however, they have been given authority and a job to do. That job must be done as unto the Lord, whether or not those under that authority agree with the implementation of it. Otherwise, they are guilty of being disobedient to the Scriptures out of fear. If husbands are to lead by example, they must begin by obeying the commands the Lord gave regarding their headship and live it out with fearlessness and courage. God will come to his aid and strengthen him for the battle at hand because of his faithfulness and obedience. He need not fear the enemy.

For the husband is the head of the wife,
even as Christ is the head of the church: 
                                 and he is the saviour of the body.
Ephesians 5:23

Comments (20)

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I love this! I'm going to print it out and show it to my husband. I want him to consider these suggestions. I am so much better than I used to be, but I still have bad days where it takes every drop of strength, patience and prayer not to argue. Instead, I repeat a bible verse, say a quick prayer for a wise response and patience, and my anger melts away. I still have room to improve and I think I always will.

My husband is very quiet, loyal, works extremely hard, is very even-tempered, smart, very loving to me and our little girl and has always been patient and faithful with me. While I've always been a believer in our marraige, I haven't always been submissive. I'm surprised he put up with me for so long. I've been praying for him to be a more confident leader since he is more passive and laid back. I smile at him a lot and have been asking his permission for thugs I never would have before, like what he wants for dinner, which color does he prefer I paint the guest room, is it okay if I buy new spring pj's for our girl, etc. He was surprised at first, but now he has gotten more confident and expressive of his wants and needs. Not as much as I wanted him to, but maybe that is just his personality and I want to accept him as he is.

Another trick that has helped me... When he does do something to irritate me, I will do something nice for him. I was struggling with him building a large machine shop on our land (something he needed and we could afford to pay for in full), because of my jealousy of living in an older house. Our house is well maintained and kept up, and I appreciate it's character and history now and even compliments from others on how beautiful our house and land is now. But one day, I didn't care and was jealous. I finally marched out to his new shop and cleaned his office, bathroom, kitchen,windows from top to bottom. He was really touched and I no longer felt jealous. It all boils down to me just being selfish and not knowing how blessed I really am to have him and how hard he works for us.

Thank you again for a great post! Sorry for rambling :) I do hope my husband considers this post too. Have a good weekend.
1 reply · active 524 weeks ago
Katie, I love your suggestion about blessing him when you're upset. I think, when we take our eyes off ourselves and our problems, the Lord gives us a glimpse of our conflict through His eyes.

I have always made a habit of never refusing my husband intimacy, even after a conflict, and even in prior years when some serious stuff was occurring. To this day, my husband brings up this habit of mine and how much it ministered to him. You are doing great work in your marriage when you repay evil (or even imagined wrongs) with good.
I like the suggestion to ask a wife to search her heart. Rather then responding with authority alone, he reminds her of the connection to God and what is most important to her heart.

Time outs are a known way to diffuse heat, however, I am not at all comfortable with actually leaving a house or seeing my husband leave. I am interested in knowing other ways couples handle these types of situations without actually leaving. (This is by no means against anything described in the above post.)
4 replies · active 524 weeks ago
Hi Ksdee,

I know that conflict resolution is something people speak of a lot, and while there are times when both people involved are in the frame of mind to cooperate with resolution through words alone, this was an instance where the wife was not being responsive to his words alone. He had said everything he could have that was "nice" and her screaming and disrespect were only getting worse. Only a small part of the conversation was posted today and the situation had even more troubling details than were disclosed, so he needed a plan of action (not just words).

The important reason for the husband taking the kids out for a couple of hours to let her cool off and think about her behavior is because it's just not wise to allow the children to be around that kind of behavior. If there were no children involved, he may have opted to just leave the room and go make himself a sandwich, but this post was specifically about what to do when children are being affected by this volatile behavior.

I agree that we should always go a more mild route when solving problems if possible, but more drastic plans of action are necessary when less drastic measures don't even begin to make a dent in the problem.
Hi Ksdee,

Remember you don't have to leave the house to diffuse a verbal battle, or yelling. You can leave the room, put headsets on, or go out in the garage and work on something. Maybe get into the bathroom. Separting from the disrespect and verbal attacks is the fastest way to diffuse such a situation without escalating it. Unfortunately, some will still barge into the room and start in again, and then one needs to politely ask them repeatedly to leave the room until they stop and leave. Hopefuly they come back and apologize and it is then that a discussion can take place. Here is where I counsel husbands to then ask a wife for a resonsable set of standards that both can abide by, including not following the other into another room unless it is to apologize.

I am a big believer in establishing norms for behavior in a Christian home that all must abide by. Husband and wife should decide together how they will handle disagreements, especialy those that escalate, and what boundaries must be maintained to be Christian in all that is said and done. Any violations should have a consequence that both agree to in advance so that there is no guesswork where this ends. An apology and doing the dishes that night, or giving a 15 mnute back rub are good starters, but for repeated misbavior by either spouse the agreed upon conseqences should increase.

Without understanding the established standards and knowing the agreed upon disciplines, no organization or relationship moves forward and flourishes, especially when reasonable standards are broken. So if you are looking for more ideas as to what to do in the tough times of the relationship, find them together with your spouse during the good times when you ask your husbnad to establish good Christian standards and disciplines that both can use when the relationship starts to turn sour.
I like your idea to establish standards so it is known what to expect and also provides a soft place to land at.
When a wife is respectful of her husband as head of the home and submits to him even in disagreements, there is a fine line at submitting without feeling one's emotions/wants are left unresolved. To better explain - we fortunately do a lot of talking, yet there are times when I feel led emotionally (i.e. to stop talking when he is done or feels escalation). On one hand it is fascinating to be led, yet on the other hand sometimes frustrating to accept!
It works for us, albeit at times honoring his leadership is definitely spiritual work for me! So, I just wonder how other husband led relationships may handle disagreements and how wives may manage their emotions in the process...and establishing standards is a good answer.
Thanks.
I believe a wife who desires to be submissive should ask her husband what standards he wants her to attain. Then ask him what degree of forgiveness and overlooking an offense he will be using as he judges if the wife is living up to the standards. Lastly, are these standards that only the wife is expected to keep or ones that the husband is also trying to model.

Now do the same questions with consequences and disciplines. What room is there for forgiveness and overlooking the consequences, are these only for the wife or for both husband and wife?

Just by asking these questions helps the marriage set up good ideals and a way to deal with the arguments and difficult times. I would assume most husbands will be willing to live up to the same standards and consequences, but it may depend on a particular husband and wife. I can see a husband saying to a particularly difficult wife one of two things:

“Why don’t you hold me accountable for all of these standards and disciplines for a month and let me see how you would like to be led, then after that let me take over and we both live by the standards.”

Or, “I wish I could trust you, but your misbehavior seems so off to me that I think I need to lead you until you have learned how to control your bad behaviors and mouthy words. Then we can talk about holding each other accountable.”

When Lori was struggling with the concept of submission we had already set mutual standards, but she could not abide by them. So I told her to go ahead and be completely in control of my life for a month and tell me exactly what I could or could not do. I did everything she wanted from me for the month with no complaining, and except for missing out on some junk foods and wine, it was pretty easy stuff. I think I showed her that it really is not that difficult to allow the other spouse to be in control and have the last word. Still it took another couple years before the lesson finally hit home for her.

The need to be in control, to mouth off, demand that feelings get met, and just punish a husband when a wife feels slighted is so strong for some wives. A husband can best move a wife forward and a wife a husband forward in their roles by first establishing good standards, but that alone will not do it without the disciplines to complete the standards. If the idea that “we are all adults here” in a marriage is true, then why do we have speed limits and many other laws, and standards for the work place for “adults.” Precisely because even adults, husbands and wives often need some additional motivation that is outside of themselves. Ideally it is Jesus living in them but if one is living in fleshly ways, then things must be at times dealt with on that level in a Christian way, while we prayerfully wait patiently for the Spirit to do His mighty work in the life of our spouse.
I think this is excellent & wise advice from Joyfilled's husband! I love how he directly focuses on spotlighting & correcting the errant wife's behavior....rather than silently (&perhaps cowardly?) seething in silence & becoming embittered against her. This could emulate the attitude of Jesus..."Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Then after confronting & correcting & patiently reminding, there is a Biblical plan of action if the wife is especially stubborn & slow to learn. The Bible advises avoiding people who refuse to repent. While a husband should not "leave" or avoid his husbandly duties, he certainly could repeatedly leave the conversation or the room or the house for a few hours! Then hopefully, he would return refreshed spiritually, to continue to patiently correct his wife again, if & when needed. I am simply thinking of how mothering & disciplining children for a woman could be very similar for a man regarding his wife & children. Here's a proverb I just "happened" to read this morning...Proverbs 28:16 "A ruler who lacks understanding is a great oppressor, but he who hates covetousness will prolong his days." Isn't that incredibly interesting? Love & prayers, in Jesus, Cynthia
1 reply · active 524 weeks ago
I always love reading your thoughts and shared Scripture, Cynthia. Thanks for your comments!
I thought you might enjoy this commercial. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RLgSxNdiC8
1 reply · active 524 weeks ago
tmichelle1,

The commercial is funny ... and yet sad that far too many spouses, men and women are being yelled at and argued with instead of showing any understanding. Sometimes it comes from insecurity, sometimes from selfishness, but it amzaes me to discover so many relationships where it happens becase the spouse who receives the yelling continues to allow it instead of removing themselves from the person each time by leaving the room or the house.
What is troublesome is that alot of adults behave worse than their children. When this happens rather we know it or not we are teaching our kids how to problem solve. Our kids will think its ok to yell, swear and disrespect when they get upset.

I agree with the above comment about not leaving the home, but there does need to space when things blow up. But in my mind there is absolutely no excuse for disrespect especially when it is shown in front of kids. There needs to be consequences for that kind of behaviour mentioned in todays blog. Too many times as adults we think we are above consequences because we are adults. When our kids watch and listen to us behave badly, we are training them that is is acceptable behaviour.

If a daughter continuesly watches her mother's disrespect than there is a greater chance of that daughter growing up to be disrespectful as well. If a son watches his father grow up to abuse his authority then he may behave that way as he gets older as well. It is a vicious cycle!! We as Christians need to be setting good Christian values for our children

Every single one of us will have conflict in our marriages, some more than others----but its how we resolve these conflicts that will shape us to have less and less conflict. If we handle conflict aggressively and disrespectfully it will never get resolved. If we can find a way to resolve our conflict in marriage peacefully and lovingly the i bet there would be less and less conflict.

But do not make excuses for bad behaviour in front of your kids. We need to be humble and recognize when we behave badly(profanity, disrespect towards husbands, wives) and ensure our kids watch us have positive conflict resolution.

We need to give our kids half a chance as they get older to resolve things peacefully and lovingly by showing them good examples. This world is so broken, so lets as Christians do our part to ensure they have a good foundation to start from.
1 reply · active 524 weeks ago
Yes Rob, you have well summarized the problem in homes where Mom or Dad, or worse yet both, are constantly argumentative and fighting with each other in front of the children. Children will indeed grow up to model the behavior they have seen modeled in their own homes by their parents. At times it is worse than that, in that a child can get very confused if they watch a parent who can be so nice and loving at times and then in an instant turn on them, or the other parent. Such a child often ends up with the need to go get help to work through the childhood interferences with normal childhood development which they never were able to experience.

I like the way the husband in this post points things back to the true begining and that is with questioning the Christian spouse if they are truly planted into the Vine. For the Believer it all starts by being planted into the death, resurrection of the Lord Jesus and having been raised with Him into a New Life, we walk as New Creatures no longer under the penalty or power of sin. Sin has no hold on the Believer, so if a spouse is still consistently falling into sin they need to be reminded who they are in Christ so that they can decide to whom they belong.

What if each time a spouse began to be disrespectful or demeaning the other spouse simply said, "Remember, whatever you are saying and doing right now, Jesus is right here living in us. Let's honor him."

Is that not the key to the Christian life? Not that I live, but Christ lives in and through me? Until both Christian spouses are willing to live that way, and accept the strong discipline of the Lord for repeated sins, then all one can do is continue to ask the question, "Are we really in the Vine?"

It is possible to be in the Vine of Jesus and still sin, but then we should want to be held accountable so that we may change for His sake. Even those who suffered childhood interferences should recognize that they do not see clearly and they need to begin to see themselves through their spouse's eyes, as this will be far closer to reality. When Lori and I decided to allow the other person to coach us by accepting their reality of our behavior, it was then that the scales on our eyes were removed and we could see how badly we were treating each other at times of disagreements. Exposure of bad behavior to the light of the truth is the first step to healing and it only happens when a spouse is ready to see it by allowing Christ to be in control.

The spouse who is experiencing the misbehaviors still has to do his/her role in the relationship as outlined by God's Word. A husband must lovingly lead and a wife must be submissive and respectful no matter what the other spouse does or says. Not easy at times, but when we do this we leave it to the Lord to get ahold of the offensive spouse, and trust me, I would much rather have Lori try to set me straight than have God decide it is time for His loving discipline on my life. Some think God's so loving He does not discipline, but the Bible says just the opposite, that He disciplines those He loves, and much of that discipline is the withholding of blessings that He wants to give, but cannot trust us with it. Some of the greatest desires of our heart may go unmet because of our own sin.

This is a sad but true thing that all Believers should understand. Instead of looking for short term, self-made blessings we should be seeking His blessings that come from doing things God's ways. My eyes teared up last night as I was thinking of all the many blessings God has bestowed upon me and my family, precisely because we were willing to give up self and selfishness and allow the life of the Vine to flow to us. Not perfectly, but in a strong concerted movement together as a one-flesh marriage seeking to do things God's ways. This is how we grow up in Christ by doing things His ways.
I believe the same counsel should be followed by the wife if the husband is behaving in a disrespectful way to her. Profanity, yelling, and cruel remarks should not be tolerated from either spouse. Allowing our spouse to belittle or disrespect us is not setting a godly example to our children. Of course in our response back to the disrespectful spouse we need to be respectful and kind asking God to show His love through us to our spouse. However I feel that unless there is a threat of violence It would not be a good idea to just leave the house. Instead just removing yourself and your children from the room and doing something else while the other spouse cools down can really help. That gives an opportunity for the Holy Spirit to work on your spouse's heart if they are a believer.
3 replies · active 524 weeks ago
I don't disagree Deb, but as you point out, the offended spouse must continue to do what God in His Word has called them to. How a wife leaves the room, and yet how she does not accept a husband's anger or demeaning talk will look a bit different than how a husband may handle things. A husband still must lovingly lead. He does not lose his leadership role just because his wife is not following. The same is true of a wife. Submission does not mean accepting a husband's bad talk and behaviors, but she still must deal with him in a respectful and submissive attitude.

"You stupid jerk I am not listening this garbage" is not being respectful or submissive.

"Bill, Jesus is not honored when you use that tone of voice and harsh words with me. I think it best we stop the conversation for a while and both think and pray about this." Then walk off and this shows respect and stays within a submissive role.

God does not call us to our roles without giving us a way to work them out even when out spouse is not doing their part if we truly accept the love, respect and submission that he has called each spouse to do and be. He will give us the power and wisdom to do what He has called us to be.
I remember a few years back now, my husband had gone out one day to the shed to discover I hadn't locked it properly the previous night. (I was exhausted at the time as it was very late, and didn't realise my mistake) anyway. He called me over and was clearly angry. And lashed out. I just stood there and kept my mouth shut. Other than to say I'm sorry I didn't do the job properly. And at one point, he swore at me and started calling me names. Which is very out of character for him. I immediately raised my hand. And said firmly but respectfully. 'At no point during this conversation have I resorted to calling you names or swore at you. I may of done the wrong thing but resorting to that is uncalled for. I gave you my apology, I will do my best not to make the same mistake again.' That was at least 7 years ago. He has never spoken to me like that again. I fact, he was quite ashamed about his outburst. Most wives would of shot back with anger. I'm do glad I didnt. It could of been very ugly.
A soft answer turns away wrath!
I watched a family fall apart because of this. She chastised him every time he disciplined the boys....in front of the boys. She belittled everything he did. The home was incredibly explosive. The older boy left home to live with his grandparents at the age of 14. They eventually adopted him. The younger boy became a hoodlum. Gothic and professed to being bi-sexual. This was a family in church every Sunday! The older boy is expecting a second child with his girlfriend. The younger boy lives on the streets in nice weather and bums couches from friends in cold weather. Chain smokes mariquana and lives off the government who seems only too happy to keep him needy. I may not be a perfect wife...by a long shot. But as I watched what happened in this family I swore that if God ever blessed me with a child I would NEVER correct my husband in front of that child. And I never have! I have felt a time or two that something unfair happened....but I waited until we were alone to very calmly (when you have to wait you do calm down) tell my husband that I wish he had handled that situation better.
Thank you for this post. I also might print it and ask my husband to read it.
1 reply · active 524 weeks ago
You're welcome, Desiree. The problem is that most women don't understand that how they are behaving is wrong. They feel justified in their anger and control, unless another woman gently confronts them on the issue. Unfortunately, most women don't feel comfortable doing this so marriages just continue to get worse. Although, it would help GREATLY if the church taught the true biblical ways in marriage!
I was a mean, young woman. When I was single, I had ways of dealing with it. After marriage, there was a new irritating source. With no private place to go, I broke down and lashed out. About three years ago, I started praying for fruits of the spirit, starting with love. When I didn't receive love, I moved onto to joy. When I didn't receive joy, I moved onto peace. I received peace by the bucketful. After peace, I was given energy to cope, which lowered the stress, which stopped the lashing, which encouraged resolutions, which led to stability, which led to a positive outlook, and now forward motion.

I have issues with advice to those without a husband who is willing to get to the bottom of her anger, yet with or without him, she must.

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