Always Learning: Girls Going To College

Wednesday, January 18, 2012

Girls Going To College

When I went to Westmont College in Santa Barbara, California in 1976, it cost $3500 for everything; room, board, and tuition. I just looked on their website and for this upcoming year, it will cost almost $50,000. This seems absolutely ridiculous to me. Most kids coming out of college have such a heavy mountain of debt. Debt is not a good thing. The Bible warns about having debt.

My best friend was able to put herself through Westmont by working in the summers and a little bit during the school year. There is no way a student could pay their way through Westmont now.

Most Christian parents want to put their children into Christian colleges, because of the humanism that pervades the public universities. Dennis Prager, a radio personality, thinks kids should remain drunk throughout college if they go to public universities because they teach such terrible, destructive ideas. It would be better for them to stay drunk, in his opinion, then turn completely away from God's truth.

Dr. Brian Abshire wrote this ~ We do not need more female Christian lawyers, doctors or artists, but more godly women raising more godly children who will fill the earth and subdue it to the glory of God. And does it really make economic sense to invest tens of thousands of dollars for a woman to get an advanced education {often having to go into debt to finance that education} that she will not use if she accepts that her highest calling is to be a wife and mother?

Words to ponder. Instead of Christians in America taking the admonition to be fruitful and multiply, other cultures who believe in having large families are about to take over Europe, Japan, and the United States in the coming century through immigration.

So teach your sons to be strong and self-governed who will work diligently to provide for their families and be good leaders. Teach your daughters to rejoice in their duties as wives and mothers. If they desire to go to college, find out a way for them to go that won't put them under a huge mountain of debt and won't cause them to walk away from their faith.

Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease.
Jeremiah 29:6

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jbeane6 36p · 688 weeks ago

Well said.

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Whitney · 688 weeks ago

My perspective is heavily experience based. Ultimately, the decision to attend college ought to be based on the Lord's moving. I do believe we get ourselves in trouble (financially, being just one) by the mass push for all to attain college degrees. If the Lord gifts and calls a woman to a career outside the home, then that is the path that ought to be chosen. Similarly, if working in the home is the Lord's desire, then that is the appropriate direction. I once heard the "advice" that all should go to college because the chances for divorce are so high that each person needs to be able to stand alone if needed (said by a Christian, btw). Where are the Titus 2 women? Where is the faith that says, "Lord, use me as you wish. My life is yours and I trust you alone"? As a Christian, ought we not rely more on the Lord than our own wisdom guidance? He can call us to either the career or home path, it's our duty to simply listen and follow Him. Just a thought :)

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Emily · 688 weeks ago

I never went to college. In fact, I only have my GED. When I chose to stay at home, I left an awesome, high paying insurance job. I made significantly more than most of the jobs in this area that require a college degree. If my daughter wants to go to college, I'm OK with that, but I will not force her to go at all.

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Joluise · 688 weeks ago

I went to university and thrilled that I did - it broadened my education and has been useful ever since. In Australia we don’t pay the huge fees and our debt are often smaller (not in all cases). I would hate to go down a path where women are discouraged from further education by the church as it is seen as “a waste”—that would be very sad indeed and a very backwards step. No education is ever a waste and for those homeschooling, further education can only be a benefit.

And the argument that we may have enough female doctors is a little silly (sorry), but what about in 5 years, 10 years. Do you want to start bringing in doctors from other countries as we are in Australia as we don’t have enough of our own (who have poor English)? And don’t be too concerned about other cultures having large families, there is no indication that it is occurring, in fact many third world nations are reducing their number of children with the introduction of health education.

And women who work can still raise Godly children and those women may still like to have higher ed.

5 replies · active 688 weeks ago

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Heather · 688 weeks ago

I realize this was about higher education, but I have a question about your debt comment early in the post. You mentioned that your son-in-law and daughter were considering debt to buy a car (a depreciating asset), but you sound as if you discourage debt to pay for a higher education (which I would consider much more valuable). Both debt comments stuck out to me because of our situation.
My husband and I have been praying and fast recently because we are in need of a car. Both of our cars have very high miles (over 165,000 miles) and lots of maintenance expenses. We've been married 10 yrs and never had debt other than our home, but feel our hands are tied when it comes to buying a car that is dependable and big enough to fit our family of 5 with 3 young kids (vans/SUVs with around 75,000 run 18K-25K). I am blessed to be a stay-at-home mom but living on 1 income makes it very hard to save for big items like that.
I hope it does not sounds as if I am picking on the debt comment, rather I think God has blessed you with experience and wisdom and I would love to hear your opinion.

2 replies · active 688 weeks ago

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Michelle · 688 weeks ago

Yes!!! I am in bondage to the federal government thanks to massive student loan debt. I believed the lies from the pit of hell promoted in the government schools of my childhood. It has practically destroyed my life. My ambition was to be a SAH homeschooling mother of at least four children. Instead I am in my mid thirties, childless, and still working outside the home because we cannot afford for me to quit due to the student loan payments and the vicious cycle of work related expenses. Thank you so much for proclaiming the Truth! Maybe it will spare some heartbreak and devistation.

1 reply · active 687 weeks ago

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AMY · 688 weeks ago

Lori,
I did my undergraduate education at a christian college. There were wild parties on the weekends, just like there are at most colleges. Even though most of the student body was Christian, sex was a common thing. My intro to religion course taught me about all religions, not just Christianity. We studied Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, and Native American Spirituality. We were encouraged to explore new ideas. We discussed abortion and assisted suicide in my medical ethics class. We were encouraged to form our own opinions. We discussed human sexuality in our psychology courses.
I went on to do my graduate work at a public university. In my experience, the Christian college and public university were not that different.

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I'm T · 688 weeks ago

A few thoughts:

First of all, I think that your daughter's experience was exceptional in that she was able to make a sustainable career/living out of something that she loved right out of high school.

Second, there is an entire spectrum of options for higher education and myriad of costs. I've said it before- the women who, at 18 know that they want to be wives and mothers would be foolish to spend $50,000+ per year on schooling. But in my opinion, those women who are unsure of what they want to do should begin at the college that affords them the most opportunities after graduation.

Third, while I was exposed to diverse ways of thinking and world views while in college (and obviously did not agree with them all), I found these views to be engaging intellectually, and nothing more. Ideas opposed to mine did little to shape my life; rather, the people I befriended and hung out with and the activities that I pursued were the things that profoundly affected me as a person.

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Holly · 688 weeks ago

I am still working towards my Bachelor's Degree. I have about a year left. I am doing school slowly so I am able to maintain my focus on my family and home, and not go into debt at the same time. I have zero debt from school thus far, which has been grand. Granted, it has taken patience and planning, but I love to learn. I also want to have my degree as something to fall back on should I ever need it.

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Holly · 688 weeks ago

Oh, and I will add that I am not opposed to a woman getting an education should she feel called to do so. It is possible as well to get a good education without getting into a mountain of debt, or even a little.

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Ken · 688 weeks ago

The real issues remain that far too many young christian adults are going into public universities and coming out tainted by the massive indoctrination of humanism and degrading values. My daughter has been attending a public University and has to put up with garbage and lies in History, English and Sociology. How the University Boards allow teachers to throw crap at our kids in the name of "education and enlightenment" is beyond comprehension except that believers know who is the father of lies and we are not unaware of his schemes.

If parents are going to send their kids to a public university they had better know that they are well grounded in Christ and His Word, or risk losing what little spiritual life is in them. If parents send their kids to a "christian college" they must also be sure that the college is truly Spiritually and Biblically solid. Too many "christian colleges" are not very christian anymore, as they try to fit into the public higher education model that is pretty much a total failure.

The fact is that daughters and sons are coming out with far too much school debt, and it is burying them in stress and anxiety. Just let parents beware and coach your kids to good decisions, not just following the the way of expensive higher education when other options are available to obtain an education at a much lower cost. The Ivy League type school is no longer a great value for the buck.

4 replies · active 687 weeks ago

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Lori Alexander 122p · 688 weeks ago

The "crap" isn't just feminism and other things...My daughter gave a presentation in her sociology class. She was actually able to share her faith. The class discussion, however, degenerated into homosexual sex in prisons. Three classes in one day taught about homosexual sex and the like on some gay history day. I wouldn't even want to hear that stuff! Statistics do prove that many kids are walking away from the faith after attending universities. In my opinion, that is too high of a price to pay.

2 replies · active 688 weeks ago

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brittanygrim 24p · 688 weeks ago

I LOVE this post. I HATE how most chidren/women (including me) was raised that college is the ONLY option. Yes, I think it might be a good option for some women, but I do not believe it is te only option.

I went to a private Christian university, graduated in 3 years and still have 40k in debt (which is on the lower end of my other friends that graduated from there). We now pay $500/mo just for my past schooling all for the sake of a back-up plan!

Yes, I know anything in life can happen, but I will not teach my daugthers that going to college is a must and that they should spend 3/4 years, pay 80k+ and get in debt all for the sake or fear and having a back-up plan.

2 replies · active 688 weeks ago

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Together as One · 688 weeks ago

Interesting comments here, but seems to be a lot of "opinions" and not much Scripture about what God's design for women is. When we become providers we take on our shoulders the responsibilities that God created men to carry as the providers. In the Greek where God says we are to be "keepers at home", it means "stayers-at-home". I went through a time where I felt the pressure to be a "perfect woman" who could work along side of her husband plus keep a perfect house and be a perfect mom...no-can-do! What freedom we found when we decided to be content with one income and to do without what we couldn't cash off. It seems like God blessed our finances after that, we are not rich financially but I will never regret being a stayer-at-home. It also increased our faith a lot, taught our children to depend on God and to ask in faith for our needs. God has access to our bank accounts. We had a pretty major need at one time to have our house re-plumbed because of a water leak in the concrete. We did not have the money to pay for it but prayed as a family and in faith made an appointment to have it re-plumbed. The night before the plumber was to come my husband checked our bank account and the money was there....we can only explain that by knowing that God has access to our bank account.
Concerning debt, there are a lot of Scriptures that warn us about debt and how we become a servant to the lender. We told God our desire to be financially free and Praise to His Holy Name, He granted us our request! I say all this with a very humble heart knowing that all we have are gifts from Him and are only for us to use for His glory while we are on our earthly journey, knowing, too, that someday all these things will burn up. Hopefully my testimony will also be an encouragement to those who are struggling with trusting God to provide and meet their needs. It's easier said than done and is not a one time thing. But God has promised to meet ALL of our needs (not wants) according to His riches in Christ Jesus! I praise Him for His faithfulness to us.

14 replies · active 688 weeks ago

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Lori Alexander 122p · 688 weeks ago

Another thing that is sad about college, degrees, and careers...They do absolutely NOTHING to prepare women to be wives and mothers, which I believe is the most important job on earth. Hey, we should start classes in the universities titled, "Older woman training younger women to love their husbands, etc." How do you think that would go? ;)

5 replies · active 687 weeks ago

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AMY · 688 weeks ago

They're not supposed too! They also do nothing to teach men how to be good dads and husbands. Being a mom is my most important job! That is why I'm staying home now. But I will work part time when my kids are in school. My degree allows me to work minimum hours (15 to 20) while making good money. My salary will help my daughters get their college degrees and will allow my husband to retire sooner. That way when my girls are grown, my husband and I can enjoy our retirement years together!!

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Emily · 688 weeks ago

I've recently been reading information on College Plus!, a Christian based education program that enables students to get a degree in less time and with less expense. The website is excellent and very informative. I filled out a little info online for my daughter a few days ago, and just today, I received a call from a young man involved with College Plus! that got his business degree thru it. He asked me a few questions and answered a few of mine. So far I'm very impressed with the program.

1 reply · active 687 weeks ago

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Wani · 687 weeks ago

I was able to work for two years after high school and pay for my two year degree in cash. I am so thankful that I did not bring a mountain of dept into my marriage.

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Petal · 687 weeks ago

Fantastic post Ken and Lori. We are not to think and walk like the world, but to walks God's ways. "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God", 1 Corinthians 3:19

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missionarymomma · 687 weeks ago

Attending college is a decision each family needs to make. On the overseas missionfield where I serve, I have needed Greek and Hebrew and am grateful for the Bible and mission courses I took. I did have older, godly ladies mentoring me throughout colleg and remain gratful for that.

There are some schools that offer an MRS. degree for those who want home economics.

What I do disagree with is the quote you gave by, Dr. Brian Abshire, "We do not need more female Christian lawyers, doctors or artists,
female Christian lawyers, doctors or artists." Frankly, by way of his thinking we should apply the same reasoning to men as well. We need more fathers at home as well. The industrialized era took fathers off the farm and away from the family which has been devasting on the home.
Among Amish and Mennonites where father's are home you find more content mothers and children as well as more stable church life.

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missionarymomma · 687 weeks ago

However, my strongest reason for diagreement is having seen many dull, unhappy, lazy "housewifes." As a fufilled homemake and having the joy of knowing hundred of fulfilled keepers of the home I find the skills of , ' female Christian lawyers, doctors or artists," being oft' used well at home. Eadith Schaffer's book on the "Hidden art of Homemaking" shows how we use art in the simplest things. I use art in my home decorating, meal prepartaion and sewing. As an adoptive mother and a homeschooler and amissionary needing to work within a non-profit setting I have many times needed to put on a lawyer hat. Rescuing the widows and fatherless in thier distress (1:27) requires some legal knowlegde.
As a mother, of 8 with 4 special needs and living among poverty I am often called upon as a Momma doctor. I am on the front lines as are all faithful mothers to study, and medically care for my children and help neighbors.
The life of a keeper of Home requires knowledge as your site says, "Always learning" For some that may mean college for others it does not have to but we all need to learn and keep on learning.

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ayearinskirts 66p · 687 weeks ago

I feel almost guilty for admitting this, but the thought has crossed my mind that it may be more valuable to make sure my son gets a college education over my daughters. Or rather I'd be more inclined to send my son to a prestigious university like USC that has good connections, whereas I'd encourage the daughters to go to a local state school. Isn't that terrible!? I can't believe I've even thought about this. But it's true. Knowing how expensive it is to get a degree and knowing that my preference is that they stay at home with their children and let their husband provide, and also wanting to do what I can so that my son is set up to get a good education so he can be a good provider for his own family has made this reality cross my mind. And yet I feel like I'm transporting myself to some old-world thinking that says it's pointless to educate females.

1 reply · active 687 weeks ago

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thedandydays 6p · 687 weeks ago

This post honestly divides me. I went to college several years ago.....and I have debt. Lots of it. My parents pushed me to go to college, because they said those without degrees just don't get the jobs. So I went and pursued my passion of being an elementary teacher.

Then I graduated and reality hit. The economy sucks and teachers are getting laid off everywhere. Needless to say I did not get a job my first year out. My husband is also a teacher and thankfully he did get a job. However, teachers don't exactly make the big bucks for having a college degree. So while we are paying what we can on our debt, it isn't exactly disappering as fast as one would want.

To top it off, we found ouselves pregnant that year as well. Since having our first child, I chose to stay home with her. We now have added to our family again. I have every intention to stay home as long as I can.

Are there some days where I regret getting my degree? Yes, I sure do. I never expected to get pregnant and have that strong motherly urge to stay home with my children. I figured I would just go back to work like most families do. However, there are many days that I don't regret getting my degree. What if something major were to happen to our family that required me to work? Having a degree helps tremendously, and teaching is still a passion of mine.

I guess in the end it is really hard to say it's rediculous for women to get a degree when they should just be staying home. I love staying home with my children and I wish everyone could do the same. However, I am very thankful for all the oportunities women have out in the workforce. I just advise anyone who wants to go to college to work their way through it. Debt isn't fun, and if they end up like me staying home and not using their degree yet, it's kind of pointless to have all that debt.

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Peggy · 687 weeks ago

Lori, you wrote, "Instead of Christians taking the admonition to be fruitful and multiply, other cultures who believe in having large families are about to take over Europe, Japan, and the United States in the coming century through immigration."

I suspect you're talking about Muslim immigration. If I may offer a differing perspective, I would encourage Christian women to view the presence of a growing Muslim population in America as an opportunity for the Gospel. Oppressive middle eastern governments won't let us send missionaries to them, but they've allowed the mission field to come straight to our doorstep. To reach Muslim women and their children, we need godly Christian women teaching and studying in public schools and universities, or working in immigration and law, journalism and medicine. We don't dare leave those tasks to the so-called "multiculturalists" who embrace every worldview but the Christian worldview.

In particular, I pray that God would move the hearts of Christian college women to befriend their female Muslim classmates. Who could better reach Muslim college women for Christ?

Outbreeding them isn't (in my opinion) the solution, For one thing, we have no guarantee that all our children will grow up to share our faith. For another, the immigrant population has a significant head start on us. We'll need at least a couple of generations to catch up. And finally, these immigrants need the gospel now, not fifty years from now.

Please don't think I'm against large families or stay-at-home moms. I'm not. However, I'm sincerely questioning whether a one-size-fits-all roadmap for Christian women is truly Biblical. The Muslims among us are actively, successfully proselytising, as well as creating virtual sharia enclaves (mostly in Britain so far, but we know it's coming to America. Just look at Deerborn, Michigan, where several young Christians were arrested for sharing the gospel at an Arab festival in 2010.) Perhaps God has allowed so many Christian women to pursue college and careers for just "such a time as this." Are we ready for the challenge?

1 reply · active 687 weeks ago

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Fran · 687 weeks ago

"Dr. Brian Abshire wrote this ~ We do not need more female Christian lawyers...." Really?! Aren't godly Christian women needed in every walk of life to spread the message of Jesus and fulfill His will in their lives. I am a young, "female Christian lawyer" and I feel reaffirmed that for this time of my life, this is exactly where God is calling me. I work for a nonprofit organization providing legal services to survivors of domestic abuse. Most of these victims are women who have plainly stated that they would not feel comfortable opening up to men about their situations. I have shared my faith with many of these women. If I get married and become I mother, I may re-evaluate my role in the legal field. But honestly, the quote you used was just plain inaccurate. It is not either/or. I thought I would be married by now, I am not. But I am sitting at home knitting doilies for Jesus. And if I chose to do that, that would be openly accepted by this community. But why are you denegrating women who have professions and endorsing statements that the world doesn't need more "female Christian fill-in-the-blanks-unless-you-are-a-mother?"

2 replies · active 687 weeks ago

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