Danielle commented on one of my posts concerning women with children being keepers at home the following ~
So then I guess your stance would be that there shouldn't be any woman pastors, evangelists, missionaries, teachers, prophetesses, etc.? Because all of those roles would be outside of the home? No where in the Bible does it limit those positions/titles to men.
I believe the Bible does limit the role of pastor to men. Read I Timothy carefully and Paul's instruction to the church.
The first thing he writes to the leaders of the church is, "This is a true saying, If a MAN desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work..."
So then I guess your stance would be that there shouldn't be any woman pastors, evangelists, missionaries, teachers, prophetesses, etc.? Because all of those roles would be outside of the home? No where in the Bible does it limit those positions/titles to men.
I believe the Bible does limit the role of pastor to men. Read I Timothy carefully and Paul's instruction to the church.
The first thing he writes to the leaders of the church is, "This is a true saying, If a MAN desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work..."
{I Timothy 3:1}.
To bishops he writes, "A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife..."
To bishops he writes, "A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife..."
{I Timothy 3:2}.
To deacons he writes, "Even so must their wives be grave...Let the deacons be the HUSBANDS of one wife..."
To deacons he writes, "Even so must their wives be grave...Let the deacons be the HUSBANDS of one wife..."
{I Timothy 3:11}.
He also writes concerning order in worship, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence"
He also writes concerning order in worship, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence"
{I Timothy 2:12}.
All throughout the Bible, men are the leaders...Moses, Noah, Abraham, Paul, Jesus, etc. Sure there was Queen Esther, but she was married to a King. God definitely used women in powerful ways to accomplish his goals and puts the same worth upon women as a man, He just gave us different roles.
Most men are stronger physically and emotionally. They don't have to deal with PMS and menopause. God's ways are good. They are for women's protection.
I am sure I will hear from some of you about how wrong I am, but please use Scripture to back up your arguments. That is what I base all of my beliefs upon. I never want to water it down to fit my lifestyle or what society tells me is right. I enjoy hearing other's viewpoints and am always open to learning.
All throughout the Bible, men are the leaders...Moses, Noah, Abraham, Paul, Jesus, etc. Sure there was Queen Esther, but she was married to a King. God definitely used women in powerful ways to accomplish his goals and puts the same worth upon women as a man, He just gave us different roles.
Most men are stronger physically and emotionally. They don't have to deal with PMS and menopause. God's ways are good. They are for women's protection.
I am sure I will hear from some of you about how wrong I am, but please use Scripture to back up your arguments. That is what I base all of my beliefs upon. I never want to water it down to fit my lifestyle or what society tells me is right. I enjoy hearing other's viewpoints and am always open to learning.
Logging you in...
Carla · 687 weeks ago
God's ways are best. Keep speaking truth.
Blessings!
Carla <><
Cheryl · 687 weeks ago
Joyfully,
Cheryl
Nicole · 687 weeks ago
Michelle · 687 weeks ago
Stacy · 687 weeks ago
Guest · 687 weeks ago
Guest · 687 weeks ago
I'm T · 687 weeks ago
I believe that the Scriptures are God's Word, through the lens of the world and society as it was over 2000 years ago.
My take on Scripture is contextual; meaning that I respect the teachings and themes given through the bible, but I do not accept it as correct word for word.
Textualism, or following the Bible to the letter of the text is another respected approach to the Scriptures.
In my view, our overarching beliefs are the same, even if the details of the practice of our faith may be quite different. However, generally speaking, I am not going to be able to give you a specific cite to a passage that I think agrees with me more than you, because you and I will probably often disagree as to the meanings of particular passages.
Emily · 687 weeks ago
Jenny · 687 weeks ago
I understand how this message is difficult for many women to swallow because I used to be like them. Thanks be to God, I now know the truth: God's word is the same now as it always was and will ever be ~ His mind doesn't change with the times, His ways are best, His message is true, and you teach it here so well. The resistance to your scripture-based posts is proof, in my opinion, of their validity. God bless you and the TRUTH, salt, and light that you through this blog bring to your readers.
Adrienne Dixon · 687 weeks ago
Thanks, Lori for being such an awesome mentor and example of a godly wife and mother! I am so blessed by you and Learn so much!!
Michelle · 687 weeks ago
Joluise · 687 weeks ago
Guest · 687 weeks ago
I'm with you on women as pastors and elders. But please tell me what you think about Pheobe the deaconess we see in Romans 16:1.
Ken · 687 weeks ago
I believe that any serious student of the Word will concluded that the apostle Paul fully intended for women to not be elders, pastor/teachers, or to teach men in the church, or exercise authority over a men in the church. Paul’s argument’s for this are not cultural but an appeal to order that he believed God desires in the church. Paul also clearly taught that women were to be silent in the church, and yet most churches allow women to speak in giving announcements and praying, and for good reason. These same churches do not generally allow women to teach from the pulpit or exercise authority as elders in the church because this is clearly forbidden by Paul’s writings.
It is a recent phenomenon to find churches that have women pastors and elders. These churches argue that what Paul is saying is cultural and Paul could not have anticipated the cultural revolution of our time where men and women are not only equal, their roles and lines of authority are completely blurred. It seems this argument does not leave much room for the Spirit’s inspiration knowing that the scriptures would transcend all cultures.
For those who want to jump to head coverings must be worn and women are not to speak at all in the church if one is to take Paul literally, I suggest that one look at the possible damage caused to the church if women speak in church or come with heads uncovered; verses the damage that arises if indeed God truly intends as His Word teaches that women as not to be pastor/teachers. If the church gets it wrong that head covering were cultural the damage is minimal, but if the church gets it wrong allowing for women pastor/teachers, and God’s true intent is exactly what Paul teaches, then the damage can be great indeed. Also, consider the “weight of scripture” when arguing any point too dogmatically. If the scriptures mention head coverings once, yet spends many words describing the structure of the church in multiple places, one should not give the two the same weight. The number of times that something is addressed in the scriptures often shows the importance God placed on our understanding and obeying it.
Do not believe that the scriptures are opposed to the concept of women “pastors” in the modern church so long as they fulfill the Pauline directive of not exercising authority over a man or teaching a man in the church. Of course Paul would not have called them “pastors” as he reserved that term for elders who shepherd the flock. Women “pastors” can lead children’s ministry, teen ministries, women ministries and a myriad of other ministries that do not teach men or become elders. If one wants to call these women pastors, or deacons, it is fine. Women play a huge role in the church and run a vast number of ministries. Without women ministering most churches would be debilitated. But there are many great reasons why God intends for men to lead the church, and this should not be taken as man’s superiority in any way. Paul says it is God’s order of things. Imagine what happens to churches if men are not in leadership and teaching. Some of the results can already be seen as these same churches as now they begin to openly advocate gay clergy and gay marriage. Once the church begins to throw out Paul’s clear teaching the slippery slope of picking and choosing what is God’s Word quickly leads to apostasy. What do you think happened to most of the Ivy League schools and many Christian denominations? Do you think it by accident that they quickly fall away from anything familiar to those of us who choose to believe all of God’s Word?
So if you have a woman “pastor” that you love, or you enjoy listening to a woman pastor because she is a terrific speaker and expositor of God’s Word, keep in mind as you listen that talent in and of itself does not overcome God’s desire for men to be the pastor/teachers/elders in the church. Talent and effectiveness are human qualities, and if God’s design is that men should lead the church and feed the church, then this talented and effective pastor is causing more damage to her church than benefit. Unfortunately, such damage to the pastor, her family and her church may not be seen for many years. And… by God’s grace, God may very well choose to use in a mighty way some women pastors, as he uses all of us, even when disobedient, to accomplish His will and desires as He grows His Kingdom here on earth. Sorry for the long post…
Kirsten · 687 weeks ago
Brit · 687 weeks ago
linda · 687 weeks ago
You are very brave. I've seen you receive hard comments for things you post and you don't let that stop you from speaking truth.
I wish I had my Debbie Pearl book at hand to quote how beautifully she puts it and how clearly our rebellion and pride comes from our sinful nature when we choose to ignore God's design for women.
I get snide remarks from my own family when I tell them I'll homeschool my children. Snide remarks from friends and coworkers when I say: I'll ask my husband's permission.
But I will stand before God and know I chose to follow Him.
What is your point of view on women being leaders in church exclusively to other women? Would this too be usurping men's role?
Fran · 687 weeks ago
Fran · 687 weeks ago
Judges 4 & 5: Deborah, a prophet-judge, headed the army of ancient Israel.
2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chronicles 34:22 Huldah, a prophet, verified the authenticity of the "Book of the Law of the Lord given through Moses" - the Book of Deuteronomy. She triggered a religious renewal.
Fran · 687 weeks ago
Fran · 687 weeks ago
English Standard Version (ESV)
31 The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.
Cross references:Luke 11:31 : 1 Kgs. 10:1; 2 Chr. 9:1Luke 11:31 : Heb. 11:7; [Jer. 3:11; Ezek. 16:51, 52; Rom. 2:27]Luke 11:31 : [Matt. 12:6]
Lori Alexander 122p · 687 weeks ago
Sheila · 687 weeks ago
GentlyLed 24p · 687 weeks ago
It is "natural" (i.e. from my upbringing/education/culture) to be a strong leader. I believe my impact in God's Kingdom work will be greater, though, from submitting, raising my kids etc. rather than preaching etc. God is shaping my character through motherhood.
Submission brings peace. I know many godly, talented women pastors. They are sincere but I think their lives are more challenging than God would have them . . .