Voddie Baucham gave a great sermon on the The Permanence Of Marriage. He does not believe the Bible gives any biblical reason to initiate a divorce. For those of you who have divorced and remarried, instead of trying to justifying past actions, he encourages you to be broken over your past sin, repent, and decide to be a vow keeper from this day forward. If you try and justify your past divorce, you are telling the spouse you have now that there may be cause for a divorce from them also if they commit some sin. Tell your current spouse you will never break your vow to them, "I meant what I said when I said, 'Until death do us part.'"
In Matthew 19, the Pharisees come to Jesus and ask him if there is any lawful cause to put away one's wife? Jesus responds, "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they two shall be one flesh. Wherefore they are no more two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man put asunder."
They then remind Jesus that Moses commanded the men to give a writing of divorcement and put their wives away. {Which is untrue. Moses never commanded such a thing but since there was so much divorce going around, he told them that by divorcing their wives, they were causing their wives to commit adultery when they remarry. If the wife had already committed adultery, she made herself an adulterer.}
Jesus' responded, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so."
Then in I Corinthians 7:15 where Paul writes, "But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases..." This verse still doesn't allow divorce. The believer whose spouse leaves still should stay faithful to his/her wedding vow until death do they part.
The only time the Bible states that someone can remarry is if their spouse dies. {Romans 7:2,3} Therefore, I will never encourage anyone to ever divorce their spouse. I will always encourage you to keep your vows for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for rich or for poor.
Voddie ended his sermon by saying that he tells his wife, "If you leave me, I'm going with you!" Let us be covenant keepers and always encourage others to do the same. We will show love, grace, and forgiveness to those who have divorced and remarried, but we will always teach the importance and high value God puts on marriage until death do us part, since it is an illustration of Christ and His church.
Logging you in...
Christina Oizaf · 584 weeks ago
Sarah · 584 weeks ago
Cabinetman · 584 weeks ago
I agree that there are situations where sometimes a divorce is permitted, but that does not mean it is beneficial. Yes, that is hard teaching. I do not agree that Hosea is a bad example because it is how God is and not how we are to be...is not our pursuit to be like Christ/God? Are we not to be long suffering? Are we not to put up with selfishness and yet return love? Return faithfulness when unfaithfulness is shown to us? Also, most of these situations, say abuse the bible does not grant a permissable divorce in that situation. Seperation yes, divorce no.
I also do not agree with all this talk I hear lately about words in red getting more emphasis than the rest of God's Word. Several ladies in the last week have commented on that. If God's Word contradict's itself, is it really God's Word? If not for all of the Old Testament, Jesus would not be considered the Son of God but a mad man (and he was by many/most in his day). The only reason we trust the Words in red is because the Old Testament points to Him. He fulfilled it's prophecies. The only reason we believe the Words in red is because the rest of the New Testament written by his apostles who suffered horrible maryters deaths would not have died for a lie and they would have known whether He rose or not. Do we not know that the words in red are written down in the Bible by the same apostles/disciples that wrote the rest of the New Testament. If the rest of their words are not perfect, from God...how do we know the words in red are?
I think we all have places in scripture that we struggle with the fairness of it. Some struggle with the wiping out of nations in the OT, some with submission...my personal favorite, I guess my wife won't be my wife in heaven. Something I like to think I'm going to have a little chat with the Good Lord when I see him and give Him a piece of my mind...but alas He is God. He's either real or not. His Word is real or not. I am so tired of us making up our own religion by picking and choosing which parts we will believe. I understand not agreeing with something. I understand struggling with something. It completely leaves me speechless when folks say "this" isn't true, even though they confess the Bible is true and it's written plain as day.
End of rant...thanks again Lori-
Tiffany · 584 weeks ago
shannon · 584 weeks ago
People trying to defend divorce by trying to use different Bible translations reminds me "out of the hardness of their heart".
Ken · 584 weeks ago
I do feel very sorry for the spouse who does not initiate the divorce, and the spouse who ended up with a jerk of a spouse. So we must be sympathetic recognizing that not all divorcees are at fault. Even those at fault must now receive the grace of Christ as He shows it in and through the church… BUT Lori’s words are to those who still have a chance to save their marriage by doing things God’s ways, instead of trying to take what looks like the easy way out.
Satan is not called the father of lies for nothing. No divorce is free, as it comes at a great cost to each spouse, the kids and to society.
Jilly · 584 weeks ago
~Jilly
Joluise · 584 weeks ago
Carmine · 584 weeks ago
Church is for Girls · 584 weeks ago
http://www.albertmohler.com/2010/09/27/a-missing-...
American christianity is so fake.
Jay Dee · 583 weeks ago
Next month I'll be writing over at abliblicalmarriage.com on how just having the OPTION of divorce makes your marriage less happy.
Kim · 583 weeks ago
Carlotta and many websites state that fornication is sex while not married. Since the dictionary was thrown around a bit, I decided to look fornication up in the ultimate dictionary, the Oxford English Dictionary. It states exactly that, but the history of the word is what I was digging for. Fornication comes from the Latin word fornix, meaning a vaulted arch. How did an architectural word come to mean any sexual? Because it was connected to prostitution; OEB states that prostitutes performed business in vaulted cellars. Fornication first was used in English 1303, and has, through time, become to be an overall sexual term.
To the Greek Bible I go: The Greek word used in Matt 19:9 is porneia, meaning illicit sexual intercourse, including adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, idolatry. I already stated how I think that the NIV 2011 translation "sexual immorality" is an all encompassing phrase to sum up the stone-able sexual offenses. To cross check, I looked up other versus with adultery. I used ESV translation.
Matt 15:19: the word adultery in Greek is moichao (verb), while sexual immorality in Greek is porneia (feminine noun).
Mark 7:21: has both adultery and sexual immorality; the same results as above.
John 8:3: the word adultery in Greek is moicheia (feminine noun) (this is when the woman caught was brought to Jesus). Verse 4 uses moicheia as a verb.
Romans 2:22: the word adultery in Greek is moicheuo (verb).
James 2:11: the word adultery in Greek is moicheuo (verb).
These show that porenia includes adultery while moicheia and moicheuo are specifically adultery. Checking on Greek to English dictionaries, I checked the Greek spelling, which I am unable to reproduce (so you'll have to check yourself). Porenia, as fornication, is used in Matt 19:9, while moicheia, as adultery, is used in all the verses listed.
I conclude that porneia, a noun, is a category, while moichao and moicheuo, verbs are actions.
Porneia is translated into English as fornication, marital unfaithfulness, sexual immorality. I think sexual immorality is more encompassing. While fornication is defined as sexual misconduct by a single person, this due to the development of English, not the definition of porneia.
Moichao and moicheuo is translated into English as adultery. No other English words are listed. Moicheia is translated as the adulterer, or one caught in the act of adultery. Adultery and adulterer are direct translations from the Greek.
I conclude that Matt 19:9 is stating the all encompassing definition of sexual immorality, corresponding with individual lists found in Lev 20:10 and following.
Ken · 583 weeks ago
I have in the past done a similar study of the word "porneia" and found out exactly what you have discovered:
You write: The Greek word used in Matt 19:9 is porneia, meaning illicit sexual intercourse, including adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, idolatry.
I am not sure how idolatry got in there, but except for that word, all the others involve illicit sexual intercourse, and the context of Matt 19:8 is marriage. So you are correct that the word in context is broader than adultery with a woman, but I would conclude that instead of using "sexual immorality" to translate the word, instead illicit sexual intercourse is the best literal translation and adultery the best overall translation if one wants to pretty the translation up.
The reason that Cabinetman was opposed to using the words sexual immorality is because most do not know the definition includes only illicit intercourse, not a whole list of other sexual sins that can occur: pornography being the elephant in the room. If porn is added to the list of divorceable offenses, then most wives can always find a convenient excuse.
As your study shows, pornography, or looking at naked women, is not listed in the Greek Lexicon as porneia. So any sexual sin that does not conclude in intercourse with a woman, man or beast would not fit into the definition and should not be included in the grounds for a divorce. Adultery is illicit sexual intercourse with a woman, man or beast.
So we come full circle. Sexual immorality is too broad for porneia, as is marital unfaithfulness. Both might include all sexually sins, and this passage by your own research is more narrow in what constitutes the grounds for divorce = illicit sexual intercourse. I might even conclude that Bill Clinton had sex with that woman, but may not have committed intercourse, so Hillary has no grounds to divorce him if that is the case. Yes, that si how narrow the word porneia is by your definition, but it certainly was sexually immoral.
I love your willingness to research the Word of God and you did great work!
Scott · 582 weeks ago
Mychael (my current wife) and I have been together for almost 7 years now. What I have concluded is that the moral will, decreed will and man's free will were not in congruence in my case. My divorce was a sin that to this day has reverberations, even without kids. For example, my ex wife and I had many friends together. Recently, one of them passed away and I felt compelled to write her about it. This awkwardness and these situations will go on forever, which I believe God says he hates divorce. If we had children, it would be much worse.
So, I tell Mychael this--it was a grave sin. It should not have happened, we dissapointed God. My wife is a grown up enough to know that this doesn't mean "I wish she would come back." Thank God, she can hold both truths in her mind at the same time.
Scott--the courtship pledge.
kentuckygal50 49p · 582 weeks ago
What about a marriage in which there is abuse? Let me add that this is NOT the case in my marriage.