We know that the “wheat and tares” must coexist until the end of time, and that Satan wants nothing more than to plant within the true church something that mimics the church, but produces bad fruit and evil. Church history is littered with false teachers, cults and many a christian leader who has been disqualified by sexual sins. It is no wonder that some groups would over-emphasize submission to the point that leaders become immune to acting like Christians, and instead act like God died and left them their own little plaything called the church.
The abuse of spiritual authority can be seen in legalism, the overemphasis on minor theological doctrines, submission to spiritual authority, and often many family members of the leader on the payroll. If anyone questions the leader in any way they are blacklisted as a troublemaker. Often such churches or groups implode under a pile of sexual allegations as there are few boundaries when Jesus is not the Head. Unfortunately, far too many followers of this group are burned by not knowing the truth of God's Word for themselves, and they are dragged along by the deception that Christ is somehow pleased with their blind submission, when He is not.
Some are critical of the Always Learning blog believing that it teaches a form of blind wifely submission. They are concerned that the wives who heed the advice given here will become "shells of women" who are obeying their husband's every whim as he abuses his role as her leader by demanding her submission. Recognizing that the Internet runs worldwide we would like to make very clear that not only is godly submission voluntary, it should never be forced upon a wife.
To any wife out there who may be in a marriage where you feel your church is over-emphasizing husband leadership to the point where love is not being shown to you and others wives, or you simply believe your husband may be using his position as “head” to bully or manipulate you, please seek help from a godly counselor, perhaps outside your church. Seeking wisdom and truth is not being unsubmissive in any way. It is the truth that sets us free.
It is one thing to stay with, to love and to try to win a difficult husband, and yet quite an awful thing to be a part of a marriage where a husband is abusing his leadership, all in the name of Christianity. Jesus reserved his strongest rebukes for the religious leaders who abused their positions. There is no excuse for such abuse, so one must differentiate between the two dramatically different conditions of a husband’s heart.
God makes it clear that we are to be known by the fruit of our lives. We love the fruit that God has given Lori in her ministry to hundreds of women who have been a part of creating a Biblically submissive marriage, yet we also know that her ministry is not to husbands, but to wives. Lori speaks unapologetically to the wife's Biblical role in a marriage, and if it appears at times to be unbalanced, it is not. A wife's role, like the husband's, stands on its own as both spouses are to fulfill God's calling on their lives 100%, even if the other spouse does not do their part. Remember, it only takes one obedient spouse to put Christ into a marriage and thus sanctify the other.
To any wife out there who may be in a marriage where you feel your church is over-emphasizing husband leadership to the point where love is not being shown to you and others wives, or you simply believe your husband may be using his position as “head” to bully or manipulate you, please seek help from a godly counselor, perhaps outside your church. Seeking wisdom and truth is not being unsubmissive in any way. It is the truth that sets us free.
It is one thing to stay with, to love and to try to win a difficult husband, and yet quite an awful thing to be a part of a marriage where a husband is abusing his leadership, all in the name of Christianity. Jesus reserved his strongest rebukes for the religious leaders who abused their positions. There is no excuse for such abuse, so one must differentiate between the two dramatically different conditions of a husband’s heart.
God makes it clear that we are to be known by the fruit of our lives. We love the fruit that God has given Lori in her ministry to hundreds of women who have been a part of creating a Biblically submissive marriage, yet we also know that her ministry is not to husbands, but to wives. Lori speaks unapologetically to the wife's Biblical role in a marriage, and if it appears at times to be unbalanced, it is not. A wife's role, like the husband's, stands on its own as both spouses are to fulfill God's calling on their lives 100%, even if the other spouse does not do their part. Remember, it only takes one obedient spouse to put Christ into a marriage and thus sanctify the other.
I will be happy to speak husband to husband so long as wives do not look to their husbands to be perfect before they fulfill their role. To any Christian husband who may feel the need to play the “submission card” on his wife to lead her where he feels she needs to be, rest assured that we are not opposed to your request that she be obedient to God's Word, so long as you allow that wifely submission is to be a voluntary state and not one that you manipulate or control. Not all husbands must lead the way I do, but I suggest three tests of your leadership ~
1. Does your leadership reflect acting like a Christian with the fruit of the Spirit in your life? Being controlling, domineering, demanding, putting your wife down, and not building her up in love, are unchristian. God did not give you the role as "head” of your family for personal gain, but to serve your family with the life of Christ shining in the fruit of how you behave and treat your wife.
2. Do you lead by example? Can you turn around almost every request you make of your wife and do it yourself first? If a leader is asking something that they are unwilling to give or do themselves then they are not being a kind or generous leader. Certainly one cannot expect the husband to do everything for a wife, all dishes and housework, plus a job outside the home, but whatever the demand is, the “smell test” for fairness is whether you would do what you are requesting yourself.
3. Lastly, a wise leader rarely tries to lead by themselves. You have a partner God has given you who knows you and the family perhaps better than you do, so listen to her. Leaders who are islands are dangerous to themselves and others because they cannot see life, and especially themselves clearly. I am not saying you should in any way abdicate your responsibility as leader, but when listening to your wife, if you are not able to give her most of what she desires or feels she needs, then something is broken in one of you. Seek help.
I will add that I believe it is best to give your wife the authority to stop you when you are about to do something stupid, and that includes if you make a bad request of her. If my wife feels strongly that I am wrong she may choose not to submit to me with my pre-approved blessings. This should not be a regular occurrence, but when a godly wife says, “I am sorry, but no way!” we as husbands must take a step back and listen, pray and work through this with them. I also give to my spouse specific areas I request she hold me accountable for, and that includes that I treat her with kindness and respect.
I will add that I believe it is best to give your wife the authority to stop you when you are about to do something stupid, and that includes if you make a bad request of her. If my wife feels strongly that I am wrong she may choose not to submit to me with my pre-approved blessings. This should not be a regular occurrence, but when a godly wife says, “I am sorry, but no way!” we as husbands must take a step back and listen, pray and work through this with them. I also give to my spouse specific areas I request she hold me accountable for, and that includes that I treat her with kindness and respect.
In a previous recent post, Biblical Submission Is So Understood, we explained that the concept of a Biblical marriage has many facets. This post shows some additional facets that must be considered. There is black and white in what God’s Word teaches, but in its application one must allow “scripture to interpret scripture” and see that there are many truths which balance out and help clarify how God intends godly Believers to live. To overemphasize one truth just to wipe out others is not what God desires for the Christian life, nor should submission become an exaggerated truth.
I also stand by the post we wrote, Dealing With A Rebellious Wife as simply another facet of the truth contained in the application of a Biblical marriage. There are times, and it should be few, that a wife is significantly off course and a loving husband may show a firm side to leadership to try and win his wife and marriage. The Christian ideal is to be like Christ who loves completely when dealing with women, children, his disciples and the Pharisees. This includes the most gracious of loving kindness, but also rebuke and accountability, especially if the offense is one of the abuse of spiritual authority.
The ultimate goal of a Biblical marriage is oneness uniting husband, wife and the Spirit together in a marriage that shines Jesus. To achieve such oneness will demand a certain level of vulnerability for intimacy and connection to flourish. Look to your spouse and decide how much they can be trusted, and perhaps trust a little beyond your comfort zone in doing what they request or feel they need from you. But if your spouse is untrustworthy, no amount of wishful thinking should develop that trust, but only time and the work of the Spirit can make the necessary changes. Do not blindly follow the ideal of Biblical submission, but test it with modest vulnerability, without blindness, and see what fruit begins to result in your marriage. If no fruit is forthcoming, make sure you are talking to wise Christian counselors who can coach you.
Christianity is meant to be lived in community and to be part of the one body of Christ made up of many members. Christian men, if you see another husband abusing his role, take him to breakfast and discuss it with him to create a level of accountability. Wives, do not neglect being part of a group of believers who can support you, pray for you, protect you and insure that you are in God's Word and will. Submission is not blind obedience, nor is it servitude or playing second fiddle.
A true Biblical marriage is two equals playing two God given different roles in a healthy way where there is no loser, but a union of husband, wife and Spirit into One Flesh.
And the two shall become one flesh.
So they are no longer two but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.
Mark 10:8-9
Christianity is meant to be lived in community and to be part of the one body of Christ made up of many members. Christian men, if you see another husband abusing his role, take him to breakfast and discuss it with him to create a level of accountability. Wives, do not neglect being part of a group of believers who can support you, pray for you, protect you and insure that you are in God's Word and will. Submission is not blind obedience, nor is it servitude or playing second fiddle.
A true Biblical marriage is two equals playing two God given different roles in a healthy way where there is no loser, but a union of husband, wife and Spirit into One Flesh.
And the two shall become one flesh.
So they are no longer two but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.
Mark 10:8-9
***Written by Ken
Cabinetman · 574 weeks ago
Buddy Federer · 574 weeks ago
Ken · 574 weeks ago
For instance, if a wife came home a couple weeks in a row quite tipsy from her "Wine Wednesdays" party with her friends, the husband may say to her, "I do not want you going to Wine Wednesdays anymore if you are going to have more than a glass of wine. If it happens a third time, he may tell her that she should not go again until such time as can act responsibility.
Yes, she is an adult, and yes, she can run out the door anyway to Wine Wednesdays, next week, but for the Christian husband we can appeal to her belief system and ask her to be submissive in our requests. We are not making the requests for any reason other than trying to protect her, and such protection may have various creative approaches so long as the husband is loving as he tries to win his wife back or protect her.
Read the post written on dealing with a rebellious wife. I will add that it is not appropriate for a husband to be firm with his wife all day long and forever. We are to be gentle and kind with our wives, and "live with them in an understanding way." When dealing with a difficult person the leader uses the least amount of correction necessary to achieve harmony, not a heavy, or difficult approach in return.
Each case will be different, but a loving husband is not going to sit back and not try to save his wife from what he believes is something that will harm her, or destroy their marriage. He will seek wise counsel and thoughtfully act in her best interest, even if at the time she thinks him to be unloving because of the firmness and the type of requests he makes of her. Later, she will praise him for his love and firm resolve, or if he loses her to alcohol and she in turn loses her family and comfortable life, she will regret that he did not try harder to save her from herself. I a have seen it both ways.
Courtney · 574 weeks ago
songtwoeleven 1p · 574 weeks ago
I believe that it is a mistake to say women have weaker consciences; both men and women are clearly instructed in scripture to renew our minds (Romans 12:2) into thinking more like Christ and less like the world. I believe both men and women are held to standards of moral culpability by God; I do not think this is what God meant when he wrote that women "are the weaker vessel" (1 Peter 3:7).
That being said, I also believe that women are not as strong as men in the physical, or in the emotional, or in some of our thinking. We are not the same as men. Our brains are literally chemically and physically different in creation. This does not mean we are inferior, but that we are differently made, to be complementary to our husbands and not just like our husbands.
Because we are different than men, and God ordained a woman's father and husband to be her protector(s), it is necessary that a man see his wife may be in need of direction at times, lest she veer off course into dangerous waters of deception. Because of God's order (Husband/Wife/Children, or Father/daughter, with a female always having appropriate male authority over her life), I believe He is saying that women, being the weaker vessel, need loving, protective guidance and leadership from the man in authority over them (Father or Husband), lest she be eaten alive by the many traps of Satan, or she fall into traps of her own emotional making.
Again, because of the order God set out in Creation and in New Testament teachings for marriage, I believe most men (if it hasn't been 'trained' out of them by society) don't take too kindly to being told what to do by their wives! It's just built into them by the Creator to be in leadership, and unless it's been trained out of them by myriad societal sources, they do not respond well to a woman trying to lead them out of whatever they're doing, even if it's wrong! This is for good reason, as we can see by the disaster of the Garden of Eden, when God clearly says that Adam's sin included not only eating the forbidden fruit with his wife, but LISTENING to his wife (instead of listening to God.)
Of course, that doesn't mean a husband should not ever listen to his wife, but sometimes, I know from my experience and other wives as well, we are just flat out deceived as wives, and we don't even know it! For instance, I had a friend once that my husband truly disliked. My husband thought better than to try and order me to discontinue my friendship with this woman, but he didn't like her and he didn't like us together - and he made it very vocally well-known to me!
I did not immediately choose to cut out the woman from my life; I thought he was wrong what he "saw" in her. I thought maybe he just didn't like me having her as a friend. Months later, she had an affair on her loving husband and moved in with her lover while still married. She then chose to run her little six year old daughter through the divorce wringer, laughing about it. She had no remorse, and her "Christian" character wasn't at all developed, as I had previously thought.
My husband was right about this woman's lack of character. When I saw what she had done, I was heartbroken. I was sick about what she had chosen. Our friendship was over because I could not speak truth to her without her taking offense, and that was that. Had I just listened to my husband in the first place, I may not have invested so much emotion and time in this friendship with her; I might have kept her as an acquaintance, but not a close friend. I learned a lot through this experience.
I know that even though my husband is just another flawed human being like myself, that sometimes, by virtue of the position God has given him as head of our household, he sees things that I do not. He sees dangers that I do not, and I am wise to heed his counsel in these areas. He sees if I am getting overly emotional about certain things, or making decisions based upon emotion alone, and he is able to speak to me.
He's not perfect; he has his issues like any husband. I have mine. I do not always listen to him, as you can see above, but I am trying to train myself to honor God by being more and more yielded and submissive to my husband.
Courtney · 574 weeks ago
Ken · 574 weeks ago
There are many marriage models that can be enjoyed by couples, and this is not a subject to become legalistic over. So long as the couple is acting and treating each other as Christians I am sure God is quite pleased. It is when things go wrong, and they often do, that couples go running for answers as to how to solve the problems, and it is here that God's Word can show them the way.
My question is not first are you submissive or not submissive but are you acting like a Christian towards your spouse. If you say yes, then I know you are submissive and loving. That is a big part of Christianity, one to another. Not just marriage.
Ken · 574 weeks ago
To be honest I am not sure exactly why God does and says a lot of things, but I do see the Biblical model as being pretty terrific. I put together quite a few partnerships and almost always now the partnership papers clearly point out who will be the managing partner each year. Generally it is the senior partner for five years, the the junior partner takes over and manages. Just this one thing of clarity as to who will mange the group has saved many partnerships that used to be lost when they were 50-50% responsible for the direction and leadership of the business.
There is a lot of money spent to buy into a business, then to turn around and trust a partner do do what is right is a somewhat scary and vulnerable thing. But it is also freeing to know who gets to make the final decisions after the discussions are over, and generally easy to give in on a decision if a partner knows that they gave their word that this would be the way management was done.
At any time a partner can leave. Some partners are never allowed to mange until the senior doctor leaves. Others take over immediately in leadership. The bottom line is clarity as to who is responsible to lead and who will make final decisions. God knows that such clarity is best for a marriage and he is not so interested in individual rights as he is desirous of harmony and order. This is especially true if one accepts the style of leadership advocated i GOd's Word.
I could give you a bunch of other guesses, including as I read yesterday that women's minds tend to be like a computer that opens a file and cannot close it until it is completed and a man's opens and closes files all the time with much less need to finalize the file before closure. But really, I think that if Eve had been made first and put in charge of the earth, then Adam made as her helpmeet, then God would have wanted it that way and I would be happy with it. God could have also made Adam and Eve out of the same dust and clump of clay and chose not to.
If God says the husband is to be the leader of the family, he probably has 20-30 great reasons for which he has gifted both man and women to play their roles so that they can be a complete family unit for raising great kids. He had two choices for who was to take the role of leadership... it kind of made sense he gave the bigger muscles and protection instincts to the man and the nurturing instincts to the women if she is going to make babies,
But if he wanted it the other way around, would we have a society where women are just like men and have babies, and men are like women but can't have babies? What good would the men serve as different or unique from these muscle bound women? It Is the having of babies part that makes the women so important to the One Flesh, vital to a marriage, just different but equal in personhood and contribution to the whole.
elspethbreathinggrace 46p · 574 weeks ago
In reality the percentage of men who abuse their headship in the name of Christianity is so small as to be insignificant, and everyone knows it.
But to the woman who lives it, it doesn't comfort her to know she is uncommon, so bless you for your diligence to consider and counsel all women.
The problem of course is that for most women, any show of resolve or strength by a husband is automatically labeled controlling (which is then labeled abuse).
It has made me very wary of most abuse claims frankly because despite the clear evidence that my husband treats me with great love and respect, I am immediately confronted with concern by virtue of the fact that I decline to participate in a thing if he won't like it or if I need to get his okay first.
For that reason, I tend to just skip all reference to abuse and address such concerns privately with women who ask. Now you have a post here that I can refer such women to.
-Elspeth
Ken · 574 weeks ago
Lori has a specific ministry to Christian women who want to live Biblically modeled lives and "win their man without a word" As you are well aware the outside world would much prefer Christians like Lori and most of her readers to go to their Bibles and cut out large sections of Pauline teaching on the subject of marriage, then run to Peter and cut him out too, because of the potential they have seen for abuse.
We felt that even if it was one person who can be harmed by the abuse of spiritual authority, it is worth addressing the subject to try to be clear on where we stand. We have no intention of cutting out verses inn our Bible or watering them down, but we can explain that if a wife's submission to her husband is not producing a healthy marriage within a reasonable time, she should be seeking wise counsel as to how to get her marriage into a healthy state.
We see the results of doing things God's ways every day, and we insist that each believer seek truth, a wise personal counselor and the Spirit who is inside of them for their own individual marriages. All that can be taught in a blog is global Biblical truths and truth has many facets.
sarah · 574 weeks ago
Cynthia Swenson · 574 weeks ago
Ken · 574 weeks ago
We do not claim to be all things to all people, and in reality what Lori tries to do is just expose the truth of the Word and get her readers to think for themselves. She is not interested in followers, she is interested in a good discussion of what it takes to be a great spouse and parent.